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DLT re-trial

(104 Posts)
columngollum Mon 24-Feb-14 10:55:59

Is this a constructive use of public funds?

Gymbob Mon 24-Feb-14 17:19:25

there were 12 allegations in the first trial

MyCatIsFat Mon 24-Feb-14 17:22:58

Is this a constructive use of public funds?

I don't think so.

maggiemight Mon 24-Feb-14 17:23:34

Having been a teenager through the 60s and 70s I'd not be surprised at all if this was true.

brandyandsummergloves Mon 24-Feb-14 17:28:04 was NEVER acceptable to sexually assault someone. Not even 40 years ago.

Gymbob Mon 24-Feb-14 18:35:30

but if someone wants to press charges they do it within a reasonable time frame. 40 years is a joke. are you telling me that the so called victims memory is recalling every detail as it happened and the passage of time hasn't altered it at all. just because society has changed doesn't mean you should be able to rewind your life and make allegations against people because you didn't like it at the time.

all the girls in my friends office in the 50's used to have to run past the bottom pinching boss and try to get thru each day with their suspenders still intact, though they rarely did. do you suggest she presses charges?

Gymbob Mon 24-Feb-14 18:36:10

and how old are you brandy?

MyCatIsFat Mon 24-Feb-14 19:02:13

I agree with you both, Gymbob and Brandy.

I'm a bit uncomfortable discussing this on a thread that refers to something will be subject to a retrial.

Has there been a MN discussion about historical allegations?

Gymbob Mon 24-Feb-14 20:26:26

I'm only referring to the charges from the first trial

maggiemight Mon 24-Feb-14 23:04:30

gymbob I am disgusted that charges dating back 40 years are given any credence

So all those DCs raped and assaulted by priests and nuns over the last 50+ years just need to forget and move on? Your an eejit.

Gymbob Tue 25-Feb-14 08:05:03

get real these charges are not on the same scale and you know it. how does pinching the bum of an adult compare with the rape of a child by a priest. you are the eejit angry

slug Tue 25-Feb-14 10:32:24

I guess it may be uncomfortable for some women who put up with this sort of behaviour because it was 'just what happened' to find out that in fact it isn't nor was it ever OK to sexually assault a woman. You can do one of two things, either a) accept that you too have been sexually assaulted as a matter of course then have to process this difficult emotion and come to terms with the way it was normalised and swept under the carpet to protect the abusers or b) continue to assert that that was just the way things were and that women should just put up and shut up and stop making a fuss.

Sexual assault is sexual assault, whether it happened 40 years ago or 5 minutes ago.

Gymbob Tue 25-Feb-14 10:45:41

you never told me your age slug?

Nipping bums is sexual assault then is that what you're saying? Someone who is accused of it should be treated the same as sexual assault of a child?

tell me nipping a bum is sexual assault?

Gymbob Tue 25-Feb-14 11:35:50

oh and in the 70's and 80's it WAS normal. you gave them a slap and it was dealt with. you can't drag it back up 40 years later. that was life then.

I'm not saying it was right at the time because it wasn't but the politically correct world we live in now isn't either. you can't fart without s someone taking

Gymbob Tue 25-Feb-14 11:38:46

offence angry

slug Tue 25-Feb-14 13:02:01

Well Gymbob, when I worked in the 80's (yes, I'll never see 40 again either) it was most emphatically not acceptable to have your bum slapped, nor breasts groped, nor legs felt.

Bum nipping is sexual assault whether you are prepared to admit it or not.

Animation Tue 25-Feb-14 13:50:59

"The outstanding charges relate to an allegation of indecent assault against a woman in the early 1990s along with an alleged sexual assault on a journalist in 2008."

These are the charges that the jury couldn't decide on. We're not even in the 1970s/1980s here. Looks serious enough to me.

MyCatIsFat Tue 25-Feb-14 14:56:56

Well it was certainly comon place in the 70s when I started work. Things started to change I'd say around the early 80s.

I'm not saying it's acceptable whether it happened yesterday or 40 years ago. I lost a job because I refused to let the Woolworth's delicatesan manager grope me each week when I worked as a Saturday girl. When I reported it to the management all I got was 'Oh not another one leaving because of Mr x'.

But things were very different then. I don't condone that behaviour, hell no, but I am very uncomfortable about trying people by today's standards for things they may have done in a very different historical period.

I think we are making scapegoats of people in a pathetic attempt to atone for turning a blind eye to the behaviour of Saville.

maggiemight Tue 25-Feb-14 15:02:48

tell me nipping a bum is sexual assault

Well, obviously it is if it is not wanted.

You really have no idea, it's the fact that people had your outdated attitude and that they the victims were laughed at and told to get on with it if they objected that was THE PROBLEM. It means a woman's body is there for anyone, ANYONE, any sleazy, dirty, old, young, learing, ANY man to toy with for a bit of sexual thrill, and she has no say whatsoever and worse, NO RIGHT TO OBJECT.

maggiemight Tue 25-Feb-14 15:23:47

I think we are making scapegoats of people in a pathetic attempt to atone for turning a blind eye to the behaviour of Saville

It's not that simple, names have come into the limelight, as they do when men are accused of rape, and the upshot is that others come forward. Once the CPS has decided to prosecute I doubt they can pick and choose which accusations go ahead or not.

As far as I can see in the other cases of old celebs being accused is that it is not girls who were 'up for it' having revenge for past grievances but young innocent girls in early and mid teens (and we were unbelievably innocent then compared to nowadays) being molested or raped.

There is no justification in saying society has changed and these should be left to rest because the celebs were cruelly taking advantage of their powerful positions to take sexual advantage of young girls in the confident knowledge that no one would care and their word would always be believed, they weren't just innocently getting embroiled in relationships with women who are now being vindictive for no reason. Thank God things have changed and good that they are getting their comeuppance. And imo the media coverage will make a huge difference to men's attitude to the risk of being prosecuted for sexual assault, which in turn will reduce the propensity.

And it wasn't just celebs that behaved this way, it happened with men in powerful roles or just physically powerful all over the country, and still happens in many countries today, it is only the celebs that hit the headlines and thus the women involved come forward. There are no doubt many old men in the UK sleeping a little less comfortably now than they did in the past. Good, I say.

MyCatIsFat Tue 25-Feb-14 15:47:42

And imo the media coverage will make a huge difference to men's attitude to the risk of being prosecuted for sexual assault, which in turn will reduce the propensity.

And that's the crux of the matter. You would never have seen a prosecution for groping in the 70s. You might have seen rape prosecutions or prosecutions of homosexuals for approaching men (a neighbour of mine was prosecuted for this). So men could sexually harrass women in those days safe in the knowledge that they would not be prosecuted for it because it wasn't seen as a serious offence. If I had reported my Woolworths experience to the Police I would have been laughed at - by them and also by my friends, both male and female.

Sexual molestation / assault in those days was just something that happened and you dealt with it by removing yourself from the situation. I agree that girls were less 'worldly-wise' then but they also had a lot less freedom than their teenage equivalents of today. Parents protected them more - probably because they too knew that molestation happened.

AngelaDaviesHair Tue 25-Feb-14 16:39:00

If he assaulted them, I'd agree. Clearly the issue is whether or not he did.

I know! I know! Let's have, like, a trial thingy like on TV, and everyone can here like evidence and decide if he did it or not. Yeah? What d'you think?

columngollum Tue 25-Feb-14 20:32:34

Or let's spend some public money on catching some really bad people, you know, the ones who rob, rape, murder , kidnap, traffic and sell drugs

and stop pissing about with this pointless rubbish. Then some people can go back, you know, like, to like, watching TV!

columngollum Tue 25-Feb-14 20:36:30

How many girls from care homes are being abused while police time is being spent on rubbish like this?

ipadquietly Tue 25-Feb-14 21:10:25

The Sexual Discrimination Act was made law in 1975. This made sexual harassment illegal.
I can still remember office parties in the 80s that could have had several employees in jail.

maggiemight Tue 25-Feb-14 21:10:58

in the 70s. You might have seen rape prosecutions

But very very few, let's face it there are very few now!

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