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Rape "normal and inevitable" for young in some areas

(25 Posts)
Mandy2003 Tue 26-Nov-13 09:11:03

So says a report by the childrens' commissioner. Sorry can't link on phone. So how did we get into that state then?

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy Tue 26-Nov-13 09:34:55

Story link from the Independent.

Where the publication can be downloaded.

On the news, there was a lot of conversation about the lack of discussion around consent - mostly with girls, but with boys as well - and also a lot on girls' fearing that they will not be believed anyway so what's the point which obviously emboldens some of these groups.

I haven't read the report yet, just the media press reports, I wonder if the consideration of how much more vulnerable young people are if they don't have or don't feel they have family or other support networks in place. It's now become an expectation that their parents must care for them beyond a certain points and a lot of young people are dealing with the stress of knowing their days are numbered and having to find a way to cope.

I know when I was young I didn't fall into the gang type issues that are described, but I was exploited by my desire to pair up and now that I look back I can see that one of the main motivators was how keenly I was aware that I had until I was out of school to find somewhere/someone else to be with as I wasn't going to have my parents beyond that point (I left home two weeks after finishing high school and it was made very clear how unwelcome I was by one parent and another wanted to isolate me further to exploit me for his new partner and convert me to their extreme faith). I had a countdown to 18 clock from when I was 10-11, I was hyper aware that I had very limited time to sort myself out. And my parents and I lived in a very well off area, with little support networks and had to build my own and the only way I was taught how was through romance/sex, in less well off areas I imagine it's worse. One of my former classmates was dead before 21 because she was in a similar situation and wasn't as lucky as me to find a good way out. Both of my siblings required help with alcohol problems before they were legal age because that social scene was their support network and that social scene was supported by ours parents. Proper support is failing and even more of it is being pulled out under young people so they have to find it somewhere, we know we can't survive without it, and when falling even the amoral ones can be a lifeline that really shouldn't be required for people to survive in 2013.

sydenhamhiller Tue 26-Nov-13 09:55:43

I heard this too. And it's not just 'gang' culture but more widespread.

It's not 'new' news, but I hope the media coverage means something will be done. I think Year 5/6 primary school teachers need to discuss the importance of respect for yourself and others when it comes to sex (preparing to get flamed for suggesting sex ed in primary school).

I just think if children as young as 11 are involved, it's too late at secondary school. DC1 is nearly 10, and we've started the chat about sex, relationships, not being pushed into anything you don't want to do, and how people 'brag'. I'm hoping some sticks, because by the time he is 15, I can't imagine these cosy chats...

sydenhamhiller Tue 26-Nov-13 09:57:10

Reading my post, I don't mean it to sound like it's teachers' responsibility, like everything else in society. But how else to 'educate' and change a sickening culture?

Damnautocorrect Tue 26-Nov-13 09:59:45

I don't think its area specific. I'm in my 30's out of my 20+ (Literally countrywide) friends 2 have NOT been raped.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Tue 26-Nov-13 14:57:10

I am planning to have a convo with my DS when he is say 11 about porn being fiction and not like real life, about consent, etc. he is only 2 now so I will hold off.

My DDs are 5 and 7. When should I start talking about this? I read that you should talk to children before they start thinking about it so that you can get your values in first, so to speak, before the friends/videos do.

How early? Are there books out there to read with them?

Appalling report, but glad someone bothered to do the research and publicised it.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Tue 26-Nov-13 14:59:48

sydenhamhiller just seen your DS is about 11 when you have chat about these issues.

I remember my mum talking to me about relationships very early, maybe 7 or 8, but she was a lone parent and was very open about everything.

phantomnamechanger Tue 26-Nov-13 18:50:18

bloody hell how depressing sad

I have 2 DDs and I fear for them, I really do.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy Tue 26-Nov-13 18:59:36

Conversations and actions that teach the importance of consent can be done from very early ages.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels Tue 26-Nov-13 19:11:06

That's a great link spork.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Tue 26-Nov-13 20:42:56

Thank you spork, this is a fantastic site. Will have a longer read later but 1-5 section is very good already.

phantomnamechanger Sat 30-Nov-13 09:52:37

Thanks for that link spork, some great easy ideas there

GentleGiant1965 Sat 30-Nov-13 09:57:50

With the youngest recorded mum in the UK being aged 10, and the youngest known in the world being 9, (with 8 y/os having miscarriages), I think 8 is the right time to start talking to your children about sex.

I havent seen the full report, but from the lack of detail I am guessing it misses out sibling abuse; I have knowledge of a child aged 6 performing sexual acts on his 2 y/o sister as well as school friends after repeatedly being allowed to watch mummy and various "uncles" performing oral sex.
Both were taken into care - which seems like punishment for the poor dad, who had no idea what his wife was up to while he was out working.

pincasgft721 Sat 30-Nov-13 20:49:08

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

pmTea Sat 30-Nov-13 21:39:06

Jesus Christ Gentle, that is depressing sad
Nothing makes me sadder than children losing their innocence way ahead f time and not being allowed to be children.

Ephiny Tue 03-Dec-13 15:34:52

I'm afraid sibling abuse was the first thing I thought of too. I don't think it was the focus of this report, which is fair enough, but it seems to me to be a very taboo subject that's hardly ever spoken about.

I don't know how you begin to measure or investigate the scale of something like that though, as it's so secret, happening within the family, behind closed doors, and often to children so young they don't have the words or the opportunity to tell anyone or ask for help.

whogivesadamn Sat 25-Jan-14 11:57:43

Despite all kinds of advice from parents and teachers, I think most of my my friends have been raped at some time or other and I myself have been raped very recently - not by a demented evil stranger in a dark alley but by an otherwise normal guy who didn't think he was doing much wrong.

A guy is a lot stronger than you, he wants his way with you and you don't want him to do it - who's going to win the fight? It just seems to be the way of the world that it happens and there's nothing you can do.

You don't tell you parents cos they'll be somehow ashamed of you and you don't tell the police cos it'll come to nothing and you'll then be an outcast for having had the nerve to accuse a nice guy of such a terrible thing.

So you pick yourself up, have a shower and get on with your life.

And be more careful next time? How does that work? I could stay away from bad guys and bad places, I guess. But I already do that and it doesn't work.

checkmates Sat 25-Jan-14 12:41:08

It still gets 3 to 6 years when proven.

whogivesadamn Sat 25-Jan-14 16:58:08

3 to 6 years in jail does nobody any good.

If the guy knows he's doing a really bad thing when he rapes you, he should be shot in the head. No jail time, Just shoot him dead.

But a whole lot of rapes are done by guys who seem to think it's okay to force themselves on girls and, when they do it, they don't mean the girl any serious harm, if any harm at all.

As bitter as you might feel about being raped, it's hard to feel hateful towards a guy who a nice guy most of the time and who genuinely doesn't know or understand how much he's hurt you.

A friend of mine was raped by her brother as a kind of 'put you in your place' thing. She didn't tell her parents because she was too ashamed and she didn't tell the police because, as angry as her parents would be with the brother, she'd be an outcast from the family if she had her own brother put in jail and branded a rapist.

So what are we supposed to do to get our heads back together after something like this?

AskBasil Mon 27-Jan-14 11:59:55

The answer lies with what we teach boys about sex and rape.

Stop telling girls not to get raped and tell boys not to rape them instead.

That would be a start.

AmandaCooper Thu 30-Jan-14 12:17:42

FrequentFlyer I thought Sydenhamhiller meant she would talk to her DS about porn at age 11, not sex and relationships generally.

columngollum Thu 30-Jan-14 13:20:35

Dysfunction, substance abuse, anti-social behaviour, irresponsible/absent parenting, gang culture and lack of direction, occupation, hope and opportunities I'm sure add up to plenty of illegal behaviours including sexual coercion, rape, trafficking and more...

My problem with much of this is that it's perfectly predictable. So, why hasn't it been stopped?

columngollum Thu 30-Jan-14 13:24:45

The answer is that it costs too much to stop it. So, best let it continue until it reaches the newspapers and then stop that bit of it.

Scaredycat3000 Thu 30-Jan-14 15:01:11

Every time this subject comes up it always seems to focus on how females need to be educated, surely educating males is more important? Prevention is better than cure? As a mother to two boys I plan on educating them.

checkmates Wed 05-Feb-14 12:49:26

good site. Great post. It needs publicising.

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