Forget the MMR debate - there are more important things to worry about

[hellywobs]

Instead of victimising Wakefield (who actually was not the first to raise concerns about the MMR which was controversial long before his study) I would prefer to see the doctors and lawyers struck off who have conspired to make the family court system secretive and inaccurate as was mentioned in the Times this week. Parents lose their children on the flimsiest of evidence and if they are later vindicated do not get their children back. Sally Clark was lucky in one respect - as her husband was able to keep their surviving son so when she came out of jail she at least had one son left and the crminal courts are not closed. Many parents are not so lucky.

If you want to campaign against someone, forget Wakefield - he may have helped to contribute towards the angst that parents go through when considering vaccination but in my eyes he is a lot better than Roy Meadows, who was reinstated by a court after being struck off but if Wakefield were struck off you could be sure that any judge sitting in a judicial review would be leaned on very heavily to make sure the decision stuck.

And I still don't understand why so many parents who agree with the MMR have a problem with those who do not - if your child has had the MMR jab why are you concerned? Or are you not so convinced about the efficacy of the MMR immunisation - ie you are worried that it might not work - and if that is the case, why bother having it when there are risks associated with it (if there were not, there would not be a Vaccine Damage Act).

Anyway I am not a pro or anti MMR campaigner - as I said above I am far more concerned about the family courts and the fact that innocent people are losing their children. My son got a straw stuck up his nose yesterday at his nursery and I took him to casualty to get it taken out. I made very sure that the nursery documented that it happened there and not while he was with me. Should we be living in that sort of fear?

[UCM]

I agree.

[hunkermunker]

Recent programmes and publicity about the workings of family courts have chilled me to my core. I cannot comprehend the utter devastation of having your children taken away from you - I am welling up just thinking about it now.

But I don't think it's helpful to tell people it's more important than Wakefield - there's space to think about both issues, IMO.

What's being done about family courts and their strange rulings?

[SenoraPostrophe]

I don't really agree that wakefield has been victimised actually. he made a lot of scare-mongering statements which didn't have any basis in his research. LIke you say, he hasn't been struck off and how the hell do you know what a judge would do if he was?

and in answer to your question - pro vaccination parents might have an issue with parents who don't vaccinate because that means that more very vulnerable children (i.e. those who cannot be vaccinated) will get ill. we do actually care about children other than our own.

but anyway apart from that, yes there are more important issues than mmr. I wish you'd just said that rather than be so combative about it.

[niceglasses]

Yes was just going to post same as SP - the problem some pple have with those who decide not to vaccinate is the herd immunity issue - a certain level in population to protect. Most on this board have very very genuine reasons not to vaccinate, but that is the answer to why some have a problem.

I know what you are saying re courts etc, but not sure where the connection is.

[harpsichordcarrier]

hmm, I think your post is a bit of a non sequitur tbh.

I think it is overstating the matter to say Dr Wakefield is being "victimised". (I think his actions in trying to silence his critics by using his ongoing libel proceedings while not pursuing the claims are rather dubious to say the least.) Speaking for myself, I don't have a problem with those who don't agree with the MMR, as you put it. I do have concerns about the increased possibility of children contracting measles. It is not that I am "not convinced" about the efficacy of MMR - it is well understood that vaccination is not 100% effective. Some children will not be protected. Some children cannot be vaccinated - because they are babies, because of health/allergy issues and so on.
I worry about my baby catching measles because she hasn't been vaccinated yet. I worry about my toddler catching measles if the vaccination hasn't been successful. I worry about my nieces catching measles because they can't be vaccinated and if they were to catch measles, the effect on their health would be very serious, possibly catastrophic. and I worry about the pregnant women I work with contracting rubella, because of the very serious effects this can have on the unborn foetus.
I don't think that worrying about these things precludes me from worrying about Roy Wakefield r indeed anything else affecting me, my family and society.
I have a lot of worrying space to spare.

[expatinscotland]

I can honestly say that if there is a Hell, I hope Roy Meadows goes there, the sooner the better.

He's a thoroughly awful, vile, disgusting excuse for a person and there is no justice great enough on this planet short of a landmine which could possibly be suitable for him.

[hunkermunker]

Hellywobs, all you've done by posting about Wakefield is detract from the conversation you seemed to want to have about family courts.

[Caligula]

I am a woman and a mother, I can multi-task. I can worry about both and a few other things.

[joelallie]

Same here! I can worry about EVERYTHING at the same time.... I'm talented me...

[bluejelly]

[Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads]

Vaccine damage isn't important at all. No, not at all.

[edam]

Agree that the secretive and unjust family courts system is terrifying and a huge threat. Did you ever read Bunglie's threads? It happened to her. Because she was physically ill and the doctors hadn't managed to diagnose her, they accused her of having Munchausen's. Criminal case was thrown out, because there was NO evidence, but her children were still taken away and adopted. Turns out she had a very rare disease and is now in a wheelchair as a result.

Did you know the government is setting up a massive computer database of all children in the country? Original proposal was that two 'flags' would cause a case conference. So it takes two occasions where health or social workers or other professionals register something and an inquiry into your fitness to parent is launched. That's terrifying - what if one of those mad-as-hatters HVs puts a flag in because you ignore their advice to top up with formula and then six months later your toddler falls over and has to go to A&E?

[Heathcliffscathy]

Wakefield has NEVER made a scaremongering statement iirc. Can you find the quote if he did?

[northerndad2006]

I don't want to attack Wakefield, but after his group's original publication in 'The Lancet' as I recall he gave a press conference suggesting that children should receive single vaccinations for the time being, without, IMHO, any evidence to back up his suggestion. However, the only way for science / medicine to progress is for researchers to be free to investigate theories, even if they turn out to be wrong. I just think that taking it to the press at that point was unhelpful.
Like harpsichordcarrier, I worry that there will be a local outbreak of measles before my DS can have his MMR, or that it will not take, or that another child whose parents have decided not to give her the MMR (with the best of intentions) will get measles, develop brain damage, or subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (an incurable degenerative syndrome caused by measles).
It's frustrating that the way in which either the media, or ill-informed pressure groups can push parents around. There is always some new fear based, allegedly, on evidence, or more usually, on theory and anxiety. But who has time to research it all? Isn't it just easier to avoid anything labelled as bad? Except that, whilst eating exclusively organic food won't harm your child, even if it isn't really necessary (I know there's a big discussion here), avoiding the MMR may well do. There have been an abundance of studies in response to the Wakefield theory to show that there is no link between autism and MMR.