Female chauvinist pigs - do they exist?

[puddle]

Interesting article in the Guardian today about Ariel Levy who has written a book called "Female Chauvinist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture"

"My book is not an attack on the sex industry," says Levy. "It's about how the sex industry has become every industry...."

....as illustrated by for eg with phenomena such as pole dancing, breast implant surgery being routine, the new fashion for brazilians, playboy merchandise being targeted at schoolchildren, Ann Summers on the high street.

She calls women who are willing not just to accept this culture, but actively to participate in it: taking up pole dancing as a hobby for instance as "female chauvinist pigs", which she defines as "women who make sex objects of other women and of ourselves".

I read the article this morning and it really struck a chord with me. especially this quote

"If you happen to be a person for whom this incredibly specific form of sexual expression [the ultra-consumerist porn-star ideal] is authentic," she says, "then this is your moment, and you should enjoy it. But if you're anyone else, then you may as well be back in the 1950s, because there's no other sexual model on offer to you."

Interested in what others think. Is this another example of women beating up each other and blaming ourselves for society's ills? An ultra conservative critique?

[southeastastra]

i just read this and have to say agree with everything she says. you have only to look at big brother!

[mumsnetphariah]

I also agee with Ariel Levy from the brief description you have given, and I'm tempted to buy the book. Hate that some women are complicit in objectifying women

[puddle]

She is speaking in London next week (I think). Am quite tempted to go.

I do fear for my niece (who is 13)experiencing her teenage years in this sort of environment. When I was that age my idols were Patti Smith, Siouxsie, Debbie Harry. Just the fact that someone like Jordan can be maintream (performing on Children in Need FFS) and her biog is a best seller (some of my niece's friends have read it)says to me that something has gone wrong somewhere.

[southeastastra]

it is so worrying, we seem to be going backwards as a society rather than forwards, it makes me so mad.

have to pick up that book

[edam]

She has a bit of a point, but that's just a small part of the story, in the wider context of male abuse of power. It is generally men who have the money and make the rules, particularly in the sex industry (which is where I'd put porn).

But yes, women who are complicit in objectifying women are quislings/Uncle Toms IMO.

[Mercy]

I have some sympathy with what Ariel Levy is saying - to a small extent I see it on MN too (although not necessarily in an overt sexual way)

Actually I'm struggling to respond as I have so many things to say. Need to go away and think!

[puddle]

Mercy come back when you've thought! Am interested when you say you have seen it on MN.

[TwoIfBySea]

In a country where someone like Jade can be a celebrity then of course it is true. I would hate to have a daughter with the role models available to her.

[mumsnetpariah]

There are some positive female role models too Twoif - it isn't entirely doom and gloom as a mother of a dd (and a ds)

[moondog]

I read an interview with her a while back and it certainly struck a chord.

As an aside,I don't subscribe to this notion of well known people being role models.
I think 'role models' (I hate that term) are more likely to be people you know.)

[TwinsetandPearls]

I was discussing role models with some of my female students, we were looking in particular at the women on big brother and I found it really worrying when they could not see any thing they would wish to be known for other than attractive and when I gave suggestions they just shrugged their shoulders.

In a similar lesson with Year seven students there role models were Jordan and Victoria Beckham and their life aspirations were to find a foorballer husband in the words of one girl
"My mum says I a to find a rich husband as I am too thick to make any money myself"

Very worrying.

[TwinsetandPearls]

You are so right moondog we should all remember that we are role models for our daughters.

[Chandra]

I don't know, none of my classmates ever met Michael Jackson but every one were trying moonwalking. So I guess that the point of role models being "created" by media has some strong grounds.

[TwinsetandPearls]

Of course there are media created role models but surely the ones you see on a daily basis and interact with are powerful as well.

[Chandra]

Actually, there was a quite revolutionary study a number of years ago that established that the main influence in a child personality was their peer group, not the parents. I believe this is true, my sisters and I couldn't be more different to each other. I take it comes from us attending different schools (although we shared the same parents! )

[TwinsetandPearls]

You are probably right Chandra as I am thinking of my little girl for whom I am probably te biggest influence but that will change as she becomes more independent.

But I do think mothers are a role model, how often do we say or do something and realise that is exactly what our mums would have done even if we try hard to be different from them.

[moondog]

Very sad about your students TSAP...

[TwinsetandPearls]

It is sad and makes me angry, I am always harping on about it in the staffroom.

Apart from the role models thing why would you say that to your daughter?

[Chandra]

I have noticed that particularly since DS has started misbehaving, someway my mum seems to be the one snapping from the background! (although she lives nowhere near to us!)

[moondog]

It's probably worse for boys on sink estates with a distinct lack of good blokes about.

[cataloguequeen]

I have to say my mother was actually my main influence as a child/teen.. loved my friends but knew better than to look to them for guidance.

[Tortington]

its terribly partonising and insulting to say that women are doing these things for men.

women are doing these things for themselves and to enable a greater possibility of a great fuck.

i think the real taboo is for women to have a good fuck

[TwinsetandPearls]

I don't think it is a taboo, I like sex and ave a very good sex life but I hope my partner wants me because he loves all of me and not just what I look like. If i was to be only bothered about what I look like surely I would be selling myself short.

Although maybe if I was prettier and thicker I would feel differently!

[Tortington]

the two dont always go in hand go hand in hand. beauty and being thick that is.

what i am not saying is that ugly people dont get a good fuck

what i am saying is people who change their appearance to service some societal expectation of beauty are doing it for themselves - why? well becuase they get attention and probably lots of sex - good and bad.


i think the person who wrote the article needs a good fuck

[TwinsetandPearls]

I didn't mean they go hand in hand what I meant was that I am not that pretty but am quite clever therfore it makes sense that I would want to be liked for more than my looks. But if I was pretty but thick would I feel differently.