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This news report says people being paid less than a living wage has risen by 20%

(16 Posts)
angelos02 Mon 09-Sep-13 13:19:40

They need to lower the tax threshold to about £20k. People will then have more disposable income, pay more in Vat.

Badvoc Mon 09-Sep-13 07:26:14

You're not wrong ttosca

ttosca Sun 08-Sep-13 21:00:57


Only a new wave of socialism can end the great squeeze on us all

We must break with the free market consensus established by Thatcher


dreamingofsun Sun 08-Sep-13 18:17:17

depends where you live though. my BIL is on nmw and because of where he lives he has a much better standard of living than someone here on double the rate. he has a 3 bed house, new car. i think there's a strong argument for regionalising the nmw. this might also encourage employers to move to cheaper areas, reducing housing pressure in expensive places and providing jobs in others

mathanxiety Sat 07-Sep-13 18:37:06

NMW is more of a boon to employers than to people earning it. In essence it is akin to a collective wage agreement where the workers came out really badly. It's really a union rate for people who are not in a union, or are in one whose leadership is being bribed.

I think things would be better if Britain instead of seeking to destroy unions had worked to change the mindset of both employers and unions to reflect the German model which has played a large role in keeping Germany on top, economically speaking.

Badvoc Fri 06-Sep-13 18:16:26

I despair tbh.
My brother would be better off on benefits than working full time.
How did that happen!?

ttosca Fri 06-Sep-13 18:16:23

> It always seems to be middle England that is hit by tax increases.

The middle-class has pretty much been under sustained attack since the late 70s, early 80s. I agree the cost of living is skyrocketing, and wages aren't keeping up.

Unfortunately, this is also the case in many other countries.

It's the result of neo-liberal economic policies which most Western Capitalist countries have adopted.

ttosca Fri 06-Sep-13 18:14:00

> The problem with just putting up the NMW is that it will harm competitiveness particularly in the peripheral regions of the country which struggle for competiveness as it is.

How do you know it will harm competitiveness?

The UK minimum wage is about average compared with other Western democratic nations:

and it hasn't kept up with inflation since it was first instituted.


Also, there are many ways which the potential impact on employment (if any) can be addressed. For example, there can be a two-stage minimum wage where companies over a certain size, or making a certain profit have to pay a higher rate.

Alternatively, or in conjunction, the government can offset the cost by lowering taxes for companies that pay the higher rate. This would (or could) be revenue neutral since employees who have a living wage would no longer have to claim as much (or any) social security.

bigkidsdidit Thu 05-Sep-13 20:11:14

I wonder that too, math. (Genuine q) if there were no tax credits do you think wages would be higher? It seems tax credits allow companies to pay less, and then govt reduce the tax credit amount / raise the threshold and people are totally screwed. I wonder if getting rid (slowly) of tc would help?

MrJudgeyPants Thu 05-Sep-13 20:06:05

racmun, I totally agree with you but this is the price to pay when the state confiscates and spends nearly 50% of GDP.

racmun Thu 05-Sep-13 17:55:58

I'm At a loss as to where this country is headed. The cost of living is rising beyond all belief, wages aren't going up and more and more people need to be subsidised by the government/tax payers just to live at a reasonable standard.

There seem to be stories where people are better off not working and claiming benefits which IMO is ludicrous.

A tax system whereby you are deemed to be rich if you earn about 40k which is the South Easy isn't much at all and a housing market which is near on impossible for people to get onto. Combined with a serious shortfall of school places headed this way.

Government spending on shit projects is out of control.

It always seems to be middle England that is hit by tax increases.

Sorry rant over

mathanxiety Thu 05-Sep-13 17:41:30

I wonder if the amount of welfare available means it is possible for companies to pay short of living wage. Welfare gives negligible benefit to those who get it apart from just keeping them ticking over (not sneezing at that, and it's better than starving or being homeless) but the benefit to employers is huge. So is the existence of the NHS (American companies, by contrast, have to fund employee health insurance).

Having NMW also means regional disparities in cost of living become exaggerated. What if NMW was abolished and free market forces dictated wages? Then, if anyone wanted to employ people in the SE for instance they would have to pay living wages there.

MrJudgeyPants Thu 05-Sep-13 14:40:44

Or the government could stop taxing the poor so much.

utreas Wed 04-Sep-13 13:16:34

The problem with just putting up the NMW is that it will harm competitiveness particularly in the peripheral regions of the country which struggle for competiveness as it is.

ttosca Wed 04-Sep-13 11:43:39

Yes, they should.

Badvoc Wed 04-Sep-13 07:23:12
So, under this govt families and people not being paid a living wage has risen by 20%. Hardly surprising, but what can we do?
My brother was looking for work for 2 years.
He did training courses, took his fork lift licence..and he and his family are £200 a month worse off with him working than when they were on benefits.
They have a young daughter and my sil still can't find work.
She went back to work 5 months after my dn was born after working til 38 weeks pg and after 1 month back at work the administrators were called in.
Until companies are forced to pay a decent wage and people are not better off staying on benefits then nothing will ever change will it?
This a not a benefits bashing thread. Of course you would stay on benefits if you can't feed your kids on NMW.
Surely instead of overhauling the benefits system, and introducing punitive measures against the most vulnerable in society, the govt should just increase the NMW and give people a real choice.

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