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Mother and 2 children found dead - suicide/murder

(139 Posts)
ShaggingZumbaStylee Sun 14-Jul-13 00:46:10

It sounds like she was really struggling, but I find it so difficult to understand why she killed her children with her.


handcream Mon 15-Jul-13 17:09:09

This is a horrible case and the women (for whatever reason) chose to kill her children. She might have been under a lot of stress - most of us are now with so much pressure on but we dont kill our children.

Some women seem to forgive and forgive their partners, taking them back again and again with sometimes not a thought for their children. A man - any man is better than being on their own.

If a mad man had taken the children and killed them due to the same sort of stress that this women was under would we have sympathy for him - somehow I dont think so.

This women murdered her children. I cannot forgive her and try and find excuses why she did it

ExcuseTypos Mon 15-Jul-13 17:18:10

Every case is different and as MrsDeVere said, men and women usually kill their children for different reasons. It's quite natural to have an instant opinion about a case, but surely most reasonable people have an opinion then say 'we will have to wait for the facts', before saying such nasty things as 'I hope she burns on Hell'

Based on the facts so far, the mum has been let down by a lot of people and I feel desperately sorry that she felt this was her only option. (Her mother also died last year and she had a restraining order against her partner. The two people who should have helped her the most either couldn't or actually made things worse)

Spero Mon 15-Jul-13 17:18:18

No we don't know what was going through her mind, or what wasn't. We may never know.

She could have been a cold hearted murderous bitch. I don't know.

But hoping that someone 'burns in hell' is not just 'words'. That is disingenuous. You are sending a very clear message there.

And I have felt the same sadness when a father does this. There was a case in Shropshire recently where father killed all 3 children and then himself. I can't believe that his life wasn't anything other than a living hell in the moments before he did something like that.

No one is asking anyone to feel an emotion they don't feel. But unless and until you know for sure she was sane and a deliberate malicious killer, it is simply more human to keep the 'burn in hell' comments to yourself.

ExcuseTypos Mon 15-Jul-13 17:19:26

*either couldn't help her or made things worse.

LtEveDallas Mon 15-Jul-13 17:43:12

Excellent, so simply for telling the truth about my feelings in this case makes me "nasty" "inhuman" "unreasonable" "sickening" and I should keep my comments to myself, but a CHILD KILLER you can show sympathy and compassion for?

No sympathy or compassion or even just understanding for me or my feelings then? You only save that for murderers? All murderers, or just child murderers? Do you show the same compassion to George Zimmerman?

Nice set of priorities you have there.

RoooneyMara Mon 15-Jul-13 17:46:57

I have only read this to a lesser degree so I apologise if I have missed something, but Lt Eve, I believe the compassion is generated by the woman having also killed herself, along with the children.

RoooneyMara Mon 15-Jul-13 17:48:11

and by the fact? that she may well have been driven to it by desperate abuse. We don't know yet.

Spero Mon 15-Jul-13 18:05:06

Not everything that is true needs to be spoken. You could express your rage and sorrow without wishing someone to hell, particularly when you have no knowledge about her mental state at the time.

Worriedmind Mon 15-Jul-13 18:05:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ontheotherside Mon 15-Jul-13 18:12:30

Everyone's being horrible to each other here, entrenched in their own view. Lots of hate on both sides.

It seems simple to me, observing this - people's reaction to this is firmly based in their own experience. Most of us here are women and mothers. Some will have walked a happy calm path, not depressed, cheerful, in perfect mental health. Others have made journeys through really dark places and might still be there. That's where your sympathy, or anger lies. So for some this story is incomprehensible, and for some, 'there but for the grace of god ...'.

I haven't actually clicked the link; I don't need to put those details in my heads in order to feel sadness and pain for everyone concerned.

MrsDeVere Mon 15-Jul-13 18:49:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pippetypong Mon 15-Jul-13 18:55:05

Anyone who thinks that someone so vulnerable and desperate should 'burn in hell' needs help with the sickness in their mind.

LtEveDallas Mon 15-Jul-13 19:00:54

No they aren't, I agree.

I'm being horrible about the mother, I know that, I know it makes me sound awful, but that's how I feel about her. I haven't been horrible to anyone else or called anyone else any pejorative names etc. I've been horrible about a dead person. Someone who doesn't know or care. She has no feelings to be hurt, she's dead.

I don't hate anyone on this thread. I don't indulge in name calling, personal attacks or passive aggressive nastiness. I hate Katherine Hooper for what she did to her innocent children.

LtEveDallas Mon 15-Jul-13 19:01:27

Oh good, there's another one, charming.

HenWithAttitude Mon 15-Jul-13 19:04:01

I'm guessing that a woman who commits suicide but leaves her children alive, feels confident that someone will look after them

If you feel tortured and desperately desperately unhappy, unable to see an escape from that other than suicide, it probably seems logical to protect your DC from the same fate you are escaping from by taking them with you.

Whatever, this is a tragedy.

mynameisslimshady Mon 15-Jul-13 19:13:31

But Lt what is the point in you expressing your hate on here?

As you say she won't know or care, but her living relatives will.

At the very least could you show a bit of respect for them by saying such hurtful things that they will see should they stumble across this thread.

Long after your rage has calmed down and you have forgotton about the tragedy that is now part of their daily lives they will be suffering, so in this situation I think it should be a case of, if you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

northernlurker Mon 15-Jul-13 19:23:32

If you're going to get all 'burn in hell'esque about people who kill then we probably should think about the motive.
So Victoria Climbie's aunt for example - the motive was what? Anger, aggression, fear, sadism? Thomas Hamilton - that would be anger and revenge then. Jeremy Bamber - money? Anger and resentment?

So all of those people (who I've just randomly thought of btw) had definable motives which would in any right thinking person provoke disgust and anger.
What was the motive here though? As far as we can see it's despair isn't it? An inability to otherwise manage the very difficult circumstances this woman found herself in. Universally women in this circumstance will if they are able, articulate a desire to take care of their dc. They don't leave them behind for whatever particular nightmare that consumed the mother to consume them too. Killings like this, though shocking and tragic, are done to protect as best as the mother sees she can do.

I'm not going to condemn a mothe like that. I think it's desperately sad that she felt this was her only path. I hope that little boy did not feel fear but only her love,because she did love those boys and to deny that, to accuse her of 'evil' is really to misconstrue what's happened.

LtEveDallas Mon 15-Jul-13 19:38:13

I hope that little boy did not feel fear but only her love

Unfortunately as he didn't die instantly, as the police reported he died a short time after the fall, then I think that is unlikely. As for his brother, suffocation is actually a violent way to die and again isn't instantaneous sad

That's why I feel the way I do. Has she have given them an overdose, or even subjected them to carbon monoxide poisoning, maybe I wouldn't wish her to suffer, but she didn't. She took their lives in a violent, terrifying and painful way. I think that is evil, yes.

northernlurker Mon 15-Jul-13 19:47:40

Well you're wrong. She took her own life too. That is not evil.

Btw - the purpose of having an army is to defend a state and possibly advance it's position by military might. Killing people is an essential part of that. There are plenty of soldiers who haven't killed but all are trained to do so to some extent.

LtEveDallas Mon 15-Jul-13 19:52:48

I never said that taking her own life was evil. I said that taking her children's lives in such a violent, terrifying and painful way was evil. That is my distinction and why I feel the way I do.

I think what has happened, is a terrible and tragic and utterly horrible thing. For now I'm content to just deal with that, with the surface of it. When more details inevitably come to light I'll think about it more, but as it stands, the details matter less than my feelings of sorrow for these deaths.

OnTheNingNangNong Mon 15-Jul-13 20:15:12

LtEve, please think of the relatives and friends of the lady and her children. She may be dead but her relatives are not. How do you think they would they feel reading that?

northernlurker Mon 15-Jul-13 20:29:07

<<sigh>> No I know you didn't say that. I'm saying you HAVE to look at motive and because she also took her own life , her despair is plain to see. Rendering the deaths of the little lads as acts of desperation, grief and a desire to protect NOT 'evil'.

It's beyond me why a poster who is usually pretty sensible would line up with the unthinking lynch mob mentality on this one.

pumpkinsweetie Mon 15-Jul-13 20:49:52

I agree with Ltve, she didn't have to take her children with her and yes it was evil. Innocents, those poor children would have been petrified and i cannot have sympathy for a woman that thought of herself before that of her children. I feel sorry for the family that are left with the aftermath and the heartbreak & the sadness.
I will never understand how a father or a mother can kill or hurt their own flesh and blood.

Iwaswatchingthat Mon 15-Jul-13 21:01:46

Severe depression if untreated can be a terminal illness.

It is something you would not wish on your own worst enemy.

This mother was probably at her lowest point and felt that taking the children from the world was the best thing to do.

Of course most people cannot imagine how she felt or why she did it. It is an extreme event brought about by extreme circumstances.

It is so very sad that she had no support or at least felt she had no other option.

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