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Soldier beheaded in Woolwich and it took police 20 mins

(162 Posts)
bkgirl Wed 22-May-13 19:35:04

Why am I not surprised? 20 minutes, what chance do we have with this pathetic response. As for the barracks...why couldn't someone come out with a gun and at least prevent these guys from attacking anyone else. Who was guarding the army base - do they have guns? Dreadful.

jcscot Wed 22-May-13 20:02:25

>what pooka and scaevola said.

The military would not have had jurisdiction in this incident. Can you imagine the shitstorm if they'd fired on the attackers?

Corygal Wed 22-May-13 20:06:43

BBC online said it was decapitation.

MikeLitoris Wed 22-May-13 20:06:55

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

MrsBertMacklin Wed 22-May-13 20:11:42

Nice to see all the armchair experts already out in force on this. I suggest people like the OP keep their ill-informed opinions to themselves on this matter until the facts are better established.

Pagwatch Wed 22-May-13 20:11:45

I agree with NiceTabard.

Deeply thick post.

jamtoast12 Wed 22-May-13 20:12:56

I've just read bbc online too and didnt see that. Said attacked but no mention on any site of decapitation?

Lorialet Wed 22-May-13 20:17:16

One of the original witnesses on Twitter (@BOYADEE ) said decapitation.

donnie Wed 22-May-13 20:20:36

Dumb and dumber. OP.....if you are truly concerned by police response times then write to the Prime Minister and ask him to justify the huge funding cuts his govt has made to the police force. Otherwise show some fucking respect for an innocent man who has been murdered by crazed nutters.

clam Wed 22-May-13 20:24:46

Loathe as I am to dignify much of what the OP has said, "those guys" didn't attack anyone else, so how would soldiers from the barracks rushing out with guns have altered anything? Other than possibly mowing down a few innocent passers-by?

LynetteScavo Wed 22-May-13 20:27:34

Stupid OP.

I know very little about most things, and even I can see it's stupid.

OliviaMMumsnet (MNHQ) Wed 22-May-13 20:29:43

Today's event are being discussed without bun throwing thus far on this thread

olivertheoctopus Wed 22-May-13 20:29:49

Dear god. Off to the Daily Mail comments section you go. It'll be all those nasty foreigners coming over here and taking our jobs that kept the police busy eh....

crypes Wed 22-May-13 20:29:50

" show some fucking respect". Is that an oxymoron ?

mymatemax Wed 22-May-13 20:34:24

police were there very quickly, armed response took 20 mins.

My thouhts are with the poor man & his family. The sick evil scumbags are beyond words

Pagwatch Wed 22-May-13 20:34:52

No it isn't.
Respect for those involved. Not respect for dimwits on the Internet.

HeySoulSister Wed 22-May-13 20:35:00

ahhh so op got it wrong?

anothershittynickname Wed 22-May-13 20:39:52

Thankyou januarymadness

There really are no other words!! It would seem MNHQ don't agree with you ;-)

donnie Wed 22-May-13 20:41:54

No, not an oxymoron. It is an adjective followed by an abstract noun. Perhaps you needed a little help with that? If you would like examples of oxymorons I could provide some.

bkgirl Wed 22-May-13 21:34:30

So it is acceptable that a poor soldier can walk either in to or out of a barracks and be subject to a prolonged, sustained attack and no one in an army barracks is capable of coming out and assisting? Plus it takes 20 minutes for police to turn up - this is London, not Ben fecking Nevis. It IS too long. Yes, they do have guns in an army barrack and yes the dissident republicans are also active and have executed soldiers before outside Antrim barracks. It is that simple, army barracks should be guarded by armed soldiers - not private security guards. It's crazy they would not have authorisation not to fire in this circumstance. For goodness sake, what if they had driven up with a bomb? Would the MOD police ask them nicely to move along or wait maybe 20 mins for the police to arrive.

I am NOT drumming up hate, unfortunately I have experience of terrorists and the fear they caused in Northern Ireland. I grew up beside an army base. I cannot believe Woolwich barracks was so unprotected. It's just so naive. I hope this increased protection around bases extends to all bases, not just a few in London.

Poor bloke, I am so sorry for his family.

bkgirl Wed 22-May-13 21:35:23

20 mins for armed police - fecking help for the poor guy is not on.

bkgirl Wed 22-May-13 21:42:13

Oliver, no it's not some racist rant - I believe that most people are decent and extremists of any sort hurt society. It's about being disgusted that for 20 minutes this went on before action was taken to stop it. I have lost friends to terrorism, I just think a barracks deserves proper protection.

scaevola Wed 22-May-13 21:45:08

It's got fuck all to do with how the barracks are guarded, because it happened on the street.

And given the perimeter wall, I doubt anyone in there would have even seeing take place.

And did you see the Ch4 News, here it was said incident was first treated as gang related? Are they meant to come piling out for everything within a certain distance of the barracks whilst identity of victim isn't known? And of course once the bad guys knew soldiers would act like that, then those soldiers responding would become the targets after a staged incident. Which is why security round bases in days of IRA wasn't quite as pp described it.

jcscot Wed 22-May-13 21:47:41

The barracks do have proper protection. However, those guarding them (who are not private companies BTW but either MPGS or MoD Police) do not, as I understand it, have jurisdiction or authority to act outside of the barracks.

The individual who was murdered was on the road near the barracks and therefore under the jurisdiction of the Met. Those on guard duty would not have been able to leave their posts and leave the barracks undefended.

bkgirl Wed 22-May-13 21:54:24

I know exactly what security was like around bases in Northern Ireland and frankly it SHOULD be known what is going on over a perimeter wall outside any base. Anything less is pisspoor and unfair to those within. No I don't expect unarmed soldiers to pile out of the barracks but I cannot believe they were incapable of taking any action. Also who is to say who else these extremists could have attacked? 20 minutes, nope sorry - I don't think this poor soldiers family will find that acceptable.

NiceTabard Wed 22-May-13 21:54:49

1. You think that the people in the barracks knew what was happening. Yo are guessing.
2. You think that there should be armed police available to attend (any and all?) situations in the UK in less than 20 mins. That would involve having armed police liberally deployed on the majority of streets at all times. The vast majority of people in the UK would not want that. And it would be a disproportionate and extremely expensive reaction to a very very rare crime, and a reaction that would fundamentally change the entire feel of our country.

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