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Toby Young - women don't want most childcare either

(594 Posts)
Xenia Sun 28-Apr-13 13:44:26

Toby Young in today's Sunday Telegraph magazine Stella argues men do not want even more boring mindless childcare. Well nor do women. So the answer is have good careers as women and then you can avoid that dullness. It is not a gender issue. Clearing up sick is as boring for women as men. Lower earners may well be shunted into that dull stuff and to keep the higher earner man they have to do it but Mr Young needs to know plenty of women don't want to do more childcare either. I always thought two hours a day was pretty good including weekends. Too much more and you'd rather be doing other things.

exoticfruits Tue 07-May-13 13:21:24

I do think that you actually missed that sentence when you read it though Xenia smile

Xenia Tue 07-May-13 11:27:22

Good to see that all the allegations against me, as ever, are always 100% wrong.

Badvoc Tue 07-May-13 11:17:30

Don't know.
I have done both.
I know which one I prefer smile

Ilikethebreeze Tue 07-May-13 11:13:14

Good post.
If a WOHM became a SAHM, then if someone themselves is a WOHM,do they then look down on that person , whereas they wouldnt have done before?

Badvoc Tue 07-May-13 10:53:58

Ever going to happen exotic sad
Because, no matter how many sahms and wohms say they are repectful of the other choices, deep down many feel superior or better than the other.
My attitude is that as long as the child is happy and progressing and not being neglected then do whatever works.
I think that the percentage of badly neglected children is quite small, thank god. Yes, they exist. Of course. But a bad parent is a bad parent, whether they are sahm or wohm.
Not all sahms are maternal early types (I know I am not!smile) and not all wohms are career driven harridans smile

Ilikethebreeze Tue 07-May-13 10:15:58

Oh I see. Sorry.

exoticfruits Tue 07-May-13 09:56:22

The sentence was:

'Maybe peace could reign between full time working mothers and those who stay at home if we recognised that we are different but equal beasts.'

My one and only point.

exoticfruits Tue 07-May-13 09:54:34

She didn't leave a sentence out-it was in there-she just failed to notice it.

Ilikethebreeze Tue 07-May-13 09:52:11

While we are on the subject,I would like one thing cleared up.Can I ask why you seemed to leave out a sentence last week when you copied and pasted an article? And it happened to be a sentence that you wouldnt have liked very much?

Xenia Tue 07-May-13 09:24:37

I can now - interesting

I think the answer must be that first post was 28 April so perhaps I was the end of my month's allowance for free access and today is early May.

We need Stella to publish an article back - "Why women do not want it all and are happy to leave Toby Young to clean their house and mind their toddlers"

Xenia Tue 07-May-13 09:22:32

That I could not. I tried to twice and the paywall stopped me. I will have another go now and see what happens.

Ilikethebreeze Tue 07-May-13 09:18:02

So does that still mean that Xenia would not have been able to link it, or that she could link it?

Xenia Tue 07-May-13 09:17:14

Indeed. I certainly did not invent the paywall.

The FT which was one of the first well before the Times with one is slightly different, but it also has a fee if you want search function and access to all earlier issues or something along those lines - in fact I think they have three levels - free, pay something and pay a lot.

blueshoes Tue 07-May-13 09:14:12


Frankly I am not wasting my 20-article allowance on reading bilge like TY’s.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 07-May-13 09:09:11

Blueshoes, don'tcha love it when it turns out everyone is right?

blueshoes Tue 07-May-13 08:47:56

The Telegraph online is behind a metered paywall, Users can have access to 20 online articles a month before being locked out. Therefore, Xenia is right about the paywall but this also explains why some of you can still read the link.

FasterStronger Tue 07-May-13 08:38:53

FS. Why cant the question be asked of both but you did not ask the question of both.

you commented on her, not him. any you stereotyped her.

FasterStronger Tue 07-May-13 08:37:50

I cannot imagine Xenia wanted to trick anyone by referring to a non existent paywall. it sounds more like a mistake.

Ilikethebreeze Tue 07-May-13 08:37:36

FS. Why cant the question be asked of both
Actually, I am really of the opinion that it is none of our business or anyone elses.

Ilikethebreeze Tue 07-May-13 08:36:12

Doea the Telegraph have a pay wall?
I just googled Toby Young telegraph childcare and up it popped

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 07-May-13 08:29:16

...and she said in her fourth post she couldn't post a link because of the Telegraph pay wall, which I guess was an incorrect assumption. I got the impression she was actually reading the print version as she typed posts.

FasterStronger Tue 07-May-13 08:27:51

Has anyone thought about the fact that she might WANT to stop being a solicitor and do the childcare?

why is this question being asked of Mrs TY and not Mr TY?

he is the one complaining. surely he is the one who needs to work less?

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 07-May-13 08:27:09

What's annoying about the article is not Toby and Caroline's own domestic set up, it's TY's presumption that men are trying to get out of childcare as much as possible and that woman have maternal instincts (and/or guilt) that make them want to do more.

TBF, Xenia's OP covered that.

Ilikethebreeze Tue 07-May-13 07:59:03

Actually, thinking about it, I am a little annoyed.
The article wasnt linked on purpose.

Ilikethebreeze Tue 07-May-13 07:57:44

I think Xenia takes the bits of things she wants in life, and buries or hides the rest.

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