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Westboro Baptist Church.

(117 Posts)

WTAF?? Did I read right?
What is the world coming to? This won't end well.

JakeBullet Wed 24-Apr-13 07:40:38

They hide behind their "religious" status when what they actually are is a hate group. Cannot believe the child welfare people have not stopped in regarding the children as they are in danger every single time the oddball adults stick them in a picket line holding.a distasteful sign.

Interstingly many of the grown up children have left them and spoken out against them.

Some of the adults are lawyers and seemingly use the law to their advantage. They are disgraceful.

I believe there is a campaign underway to get them classified as a "hate group" which will ensure they lose the protection that the "religious" stuff gives them.

hackmum Wed 24-Apr-13 09:15:33

I once read an interesting blog post (sorry, have no recollection of where it was or who by) by someone who had quite an interesting theory about them. He said they were simply a money-making organisation - they deliberately behave in a way that provokes people to lash out at them (e.g. shout abuse) but don't retaliate. Then they sue. Apparently they have won a few lawsuits this way.

Written down, I realise that sounds wholly implausible, but perhaps no less plausible than the idea that they hate certain groups of people enough to picket funerals.

shockers Wed 24-Apr-13 09:22:48

How bloody awful for the families of the funerals they protest at sad.

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 09:33:59

According to articles on the internet, a few of the church members may in fact be government employees and work or have worked for Kansas Department of Corrections.

If so, I think it shows that they are fake and may have been deliberately set up to smear Christians.

Lots of users on the internet ask the question are they real or fake and even are they a "false flag".

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 09:43:52

'To some, Phelps is a study in contradictions. She’s a member of her family’s divisive Westboro Baptist Church and she’s set to go before the U.S. Supreme Court today to represent her church in a case that tests the scope of free speech protections under the Constitution’s First Amendment.'

That explains it. Conspiracy theorists believe that there are forces that wish to remove some rights of the American people and wish to undermine some parts of the American Constitution.

These vile nuts in the Westboro Baptist Church help those forces achieve their goals by undermining the American people's right to free speech. They are obviously protected and have not been prosecuted and stopped from their vile protests and activities because their act plays a role in removing the rights of the decent public.

LtEveDallas Wed 24-Apr-13 09:47:34

There's a good meme on FB about collecting up your dogs poo and posting it to Westbro Baptist Church. I must admit I've been very tempted...

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 09:48:36

How the public are played

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 09:50:21

'“It’s a big embarrassment,” said Sen. Jean Schodorf, R-Wichita , who sponsored a bill to keep protesters from funerals. “It’s a huge embarrassment.

“In fact, they kind of flaunt that they work for the state and can’t be terminated.”

Margie Phelps is director of re-entry for the Kansas Department of Corrections, where her job is protected under the Civil Service Act.

Classified employees can’t be fired except for offenses spelled out in the law, such as problems with workplace conduct and performance."

Total joke to fool the public.

Snorbs Wed 24-Apr-13 09:52:09

Why on earth would the Kansas state government want to smear Christians? It's a staunchly republican/pro-Christian state.

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 09:55:20

Snorbs, the Kansas state government is not doing it. They are subject to the law. They have not instigated it. It is way above their heads.

These people are used to smear Christians and free speech, just like some of the people we see on our TV news screens are used to smear muslims.

This is politics. It is about removing the right to free speech and undermining civil liberties.

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 10:01:37

Phelps' case has to go the Supreme Court. Civil liberties and the American Constitution have to be tested legally. The Westboro outfit's activities mean that these cases are taken to the highest legal level possible and the danger is that public disgust etc will lead to decisions being made that will undermine the civil liberties of the majority. But it all has to be done in law.

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 10:16:58

Someone mentioned the Russell Brand interview of some of teh "Church's" members.

I think it is obvious that the "members" are acting their part and that their offensive signs and views would not be allowed on most TV stations for a good reason.

They are given publicity in order to anger the decent public and to cause them to demand action against these vile organisations, and the action will one day probably involve teh curtailment of the public's civil liberties.

The public are played and much loved comedians and personalities interview the false actors of the "Church".

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 10:27:05

The actors known as the "Church members" won't even be fired from their state jobs, but the public will slowly lose the rights given to them by the Founding Fathers in the American Constitution drawn up after the battle for independence from a tyrannical regime.

Sunnywithshowers Wed 24-Apr-13 10:38:52

I don't believe for a second that Kansas state is smearing Christians - that's absolutely ridiculous. Despite being avowedly secular, the US is for the most part a deeply Christian country. And it'd take more than Westboro to take down the free speech amendment and civil liberties.

I don't think many people associate this fringe group with mainstream Christians. I rather think of them as a cult group. As has been said above, 'hate group' is probably a better definition.

Did anyone see the Louis Theroux programme about them?

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 10:45:37

It is not Kansas state doing it.

As Peter Hitchens says, there should not be separate hate laws, there should be universal laws for all.

There all lots of attacks on the principle of free speech and the First Amendment and the Westboro Church is just a small actor in the play. Removal of civil liberties is a slow incremental process and is not achieved overnight.

The Westboro Church plays a hateful act that leads to laws that curtail freedom.

This is propaganda to manipulate the public and the actors are safe in their government state jobs laughing at the public whose rights they are undermining.

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 10:52:31

Our British interviewers and TV stations interview this insignificant group of probably about 50 people in total and their van.

Why are they given so much publicity and why are their hateful messages spread on our TV screens?

The fight to curtail civil liberties is not only happening in America. New Labour removed many of our civil liberties, many of which have thankfully been restored by our Coalition.

To "keep us safe", New Labour wanted us all to carry biometric ID cards and have our DNA stored on databases. We are a free country and one of teh few countries in the whole of Europe that do not need to carry papers with us on our person. Our rights were won over centuries. Boris Johnson said something like he would shred New Labour's ID cards and feed them to his kids over their cornflakes.

The Westboro "Baptist Church" are just another card played in the trick to remove people's civil liberties, and they are on the state payroll to boot.

HazeltheMcWitch Wed 24-Apr-13 10:57:36

I don't buy ANY of what you're saying, Claig, sorry.
The Church is Fred and 40ish other hateful nutters (mostly relatives), who want attention; want to feel special. I believe they are sincere in their beliefs, and I find those beliefs abhorrent.

I really don't buy for one second that there is any kind of ulterior motive.

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 11:03:35

OK, Hazel.
That is what fee speech and ideas are all about.
Not all of us will agree about what is happening to civil liberties worldwide or what New Labour did to civil liberties.

No one will vote for a politician who says they will remove our civil liberties. That is why they have to tell us they are only doing it to "keep us safe" or to "save the planet" for us, and groups like the Westboro Baptish Church, on the government state payroll, help them to "keep us safe".

HazeltheMcWitch Wed 24-Apr-13 11:06:08

I say I don't agree with you, and you imply that I disagree with free speech?

Claig, is your tinfoil hat a bit too tight?

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 11:09:03

I didn't say you disagree with free speech. I said you do not agree with me about "what is happening" to free speech and our civil liberties. Part of "what is happening" is the actors in Westboro "Baptist Church" playing out their act in full safety and with full media publicity on the state payroll.

HazeltheMcWitch Wed 24-Apr-13 11:13:57

It's the difference between saying something, and implying.
If you did not mean that, then fine.

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 11:17:11

'It's the difference between saying something, and implying.'

That is precisely why I said it and did not imply it.

What I think that many people are missing is that the Westboro Baptist Church, like so many other things that appear on our media and are given great publicity, are to do with politics and not just some crazy bunch of people with a van, who incidentally seem to have safe employment on the government state payroll.

Sunnywithshowers Wed 24-Apr-13 11:31:37

I also don't agree that the Westboro 'church' were set up as propaganda - but like most things, they can be used as such by either side. I think over this side of the pond we're more 'point and laugh' at the extremists.

I don't entirely agree with you that, in themselves, this fringe group pose a threat to civil liberties. However, civil liberties are under attack - for example, over here the government wants to dump our responsibilities under the european human rights act. And in the US, much of a city was effectively under martial law under a bombing. Something that hasn't (AFAIK) happened over here after any bombings.

JaquelineHyde Wed 24-Apr-13 11:33:28

I saw the original Louis Theroux documentary and the follow up he did a few years later.

The members of the 'church' were clearly not actors, neither were the members he interviewed in the documentary that had left since the original one.

The grieving family members at the funeral they picketed were clearly not actors.

And the children running up and down the road screaming fags etc etc at members of the public were clearly not actors.

Am I missing the point claig (sorry if I am) but do you actually believe that this is all made up?

claig Wed 24-Apr-13 11:39:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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