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Amanda Knox to stand trial again

(126 Posts)
gregssausageroll Tue 26-Mar-13 09:14:35

Just announced. Stating that her acquittal was flawed. I wonder if she does have to go? I am sure when watching the acquittal that news said authorities couldn't make her return to Italy if a re-trial did happen.

Coffeenowplease Tue 26-Mar-13 22:05:49

And I dont think we will ever know for certain what happened. But for what its worth I doubt she did kill her. As incompetent as the Italian authorities were during this case if she had been there , had harmed Meridith there would be some evidence. Which there wasnt. None. No actually evidence to tie her to it.

Just suspicions, lies in the media and circumstances. The stuff in the media about how she owned a sex toy and was therefore some kind of deviant was disgusting.

JudithIscariot Tue 26-Mar-13 22:06:05

Why is it bad that she wrote a book?

JudithIscariot Tue 26-Mar-13 22:09:54

Well the forensic evidence leads me to believe that Rudi Guede killed Meredith. DNA puts him firmly in the room with her. There is no big mystery here.

BananaGio Wed 27-Mar-13 06:49:34

Want to echo what nottreadinggrapes said, there are always these stages in the Italian legal system. So the talk of Knox and Sollecito being acquitted as if everything was done and dusted after the last stage was always premature. This is why for example, (to the eternal mystification of my family in the UK), Berlusconi can be found guilty in one of his numerous trials and sentenced to jail but carry on as normal until all the avenues are exhausted. The is a lot wrong with Italy and the Italian system as there is with any other country you care to mention but this isnt a case of witchhunting until the authorities get the verdict they deserve,this is normal Italian procedure moving in it's normal laborious way.

suburbophobe Wed 27-Mar-13 10:26:54

When I look at the photo of her and him, there's no way I can imagine they did that. Cos I can see myself in her and a friend in him, well, I could never do that to anyone, so can't imagine she could.....

She had her throat slit FFS!

Poor Meredith, and I really feel for her family, not only have they lost her but have to go through this whole travesty too.....

Italian justice, eh? It sucks!

clarabellabunting Wed 27-Mar-13 13:35:36

Hmmmm I've read up on all the details of the case against Knox and Sollicito and I'd be very very surprised if they were not somehow involved based on the physical evidence, their unexplained behaviour and the discrepancies in their stories. I couldn't say for certain that they committed the crime but I think the evidence is quite compelling that they were there in the flat and that they knew what had happened before it was 'discovered' by the police and the other flatmates.

Portofino Wed 27-Mar-13 14:26:45

What evidence was that?

gregssausageroll Wed 27-Mar-13 14:41:04

There is no evidence Clara

clarabellabunting Wed 27-Mar-13 14:45:24

It seems like a lot of the evidence against Knox and Sollecito is built on their unexplained behaviour.

Such as claiming to have slept in until at least 10am (on the morning after the murder) but in reality there is evidence that Sollicito's phone was turned on at 6am and an eye-witness shopkeeper who saw Knox when he was opening his store at 07:45.

Also, Sollecito's claim that he was on the computer using the internet all night but in reality there was no "human interaction" on his computer 21:41 - 05:32 (Meredith was probably killed at about 11pm).

Also, when the police arrived at 12:30 to investigate the mobile phones found in the neighbour's garden (Meredith's phones, which had been dumped there some time after her murder), they found Knox and Sollecito hanging around outside the apartment with a mop. Sollecito told them that they suspected a break in and were suspicious about the blood drops around the apartment and that he had called the police. Records show that he had not called the police at this point - why would he lie? In fact it looks like he snuck off and made the call while the police were looking around the house.

Another weird thing: the fact that Knox told the police shortly after they had arrived that Meredith always kept her room locked even when she just went to have a shower. This was imediately contradicted when their flatmate Filomena arrived and said that Meredith never locked her room.

Portofino Wed 27-Mar-13 14:52:42

I recall the shop keeper was discredited and the police wiped the laptop, so nothing could be proven in that regard. I recall reading the timeline re. the phone calls, I will find later.....

clarabellabunting Wed 27-Mar-13 15:02:15

It has been a while since I read through the Judge's reports but I found this timeline in a post I wrote on a different forum:

12:30 the police arrived at the house to investigate the two mobile phones belonging to Meredith that had been found, they surprised Knox and Sollicito outside the house. The two told the police that they suspected a breakin and had called the police. They hadn't, Sollicito made the call to the police about 20 mins later. What can explain that?

Also, Knox called her mother in the US at 12:47 (04:47 US time) and told her that she had just got back after spending the night with Sollicito and was suspicious that someone had been in the house and couldn't find Meredith. Her mother advised her to call the police ASAP. She said she would. She didn't tell her mother that the police were already there. Sollicito's calls to his sister and the police followed this call of Knox's.

This was while Knox and Sollicito had gone into Knox's bedroom and closed the door. Marco and Luca (the boyfriend and friend of Filomena, one of the girls' housemates) had just arrived and the police were talking to them. When Filomena arrived at about 13:00 she saw Knox and Sollicito emerge from Knox's room. Obviously they had finished their flurry of phonecalls to Knox's mother and the police. How can this odd behaviour be explained in terms of their innocence? It is truly baffling.

Even stranger is that Knox claimed to have completely forgotten her 12:47 call to her mother when later questioned. There was no way of explaining it so she simply 'forgot' it. Luckily, her mother testified as to the contents of the call.

clarabellabunting Wed 27-Mar-13 15:23:12

Portofino Yes, I think the computer was accidentally wiped but police analysts testified that they had found that the computer was not used after 21:41.

clarabellabunting Thu 28-Mar-13 10:02:19

Has anyone who thinks there is no evidence at all against Knox and Sollicito actually read the sentencing report from Judge Massei?

It's here if anyone is interested:

EldritchCleavage Thu 28-Mar-13 11:11:54

It is very unfair to criticise Meredith's family, in my view. First, they've been through hell and are still suffering. Second, they have been nothing but dignified and restrained. Third, there is a lot of confusion and it seems, a lot of unanswered questions so a retrial to try and arrive at a more authoritative conclusion seems a natural thing for them to want.

LittleTurtle Thu 28-Mar-13 13:47:10

I was always surprised by Knox behaviour after the death of her room mate. Even if she did not get along with her, when someone dies you show a little concern, just out of respect for her family (her lovey dovey kisses with boyfriend, the weird cartwheels cought on camera etc.) Maybe she was just an odd immature girl then.

But I do say she deserved the time she spent in jail, for almost ruining the restaurant manager's life when she just accused any black man for murder. If the guy did not have a tight alibi, he would be in jail for a long time for something he knows nothing about.

clarabellabunting Thu 28-Mar-13 13:52:14

I agree with you, LittleTurtle about Patrick Lumumba (the bar manager). Why did she invent that bizarre story about him?

It's a good job someone came forward to corroborate his alibi.

beeny Thu 28-Mar-13 13:56:45

I agree with you as well Little Turtle

FairyJen Thu 28-Mar-13 13:57:37

I know it's not a popular view but I do happen to think they are both guilty. Maybe not of the fatal blow but of certainly knowing more than they admitted or were involved in some capacity

Chipstick10 Thu 28-Mar-13 14:11:56

I agree with fairyjen.

EllieArroway Fri 29-Mar-13 13:47:14

I've read that report, Clara & not only does it not provide any evidence against K & S, it doesn't support your claims either.

S made 3 calls (one to his sister, a police officer, and two to the emergency number) - these were ALL before the police showed up investigating the mobile phones. Once the police were there, K & S stayed with the group and did not lock themselves in the bedroom.

They never said they were using the laptop all night - they said they watched a film on it, had sex and went to sleep. This is consistent with the laptop not being used after the film had finished at 9.30.

There's no evidence of S switching his mobile on at 6am. A text was delivered to his phone at that time (that had been sent the night before) - but the delay may have been for reception reasons and not because that's when the phone was switched on.

The shopkeepers "evidence" has been discounted. Not only did it take him several months to tell the police this (in spite of being interviewed shortly after the murder) but the other person in the shop at the time does not corroborate his claim.

K was interviewed without a lawyer present for 50 hours. She ended up saying all sorts of things, including implicating Lumumba. If you read through what she actually says, it's all rather incoherent and disjointed, strongly suggesting intense psychological pressure rather than some kind of confession. If she was going to genuinely push the blame on someone else, Lumumba is the worst person she could have picked, given that she must have known he'd be in the bar at that time and could easily be alibied (as he was).

If all three (S, K & Guede) murdered Meredith, why did they not concoct a story together? Alibi each other, or at least get their stories straight? They had all night to do so, but seemingly didn't.

Why was Guede's DNA all over the scene, with absolutely none from S & K? It's almost impossible to walk into a room without leaving a trace of yourself, yet S&K managed to stay in the room long enough to participate in a very brutal murder without leaving the tiniest trace of themselves. Clearly the scene had not been cleaned since Meredith's & Guede's DNA was everywhere.

The only bit of evidence linking S to the scene was a tiny amount of his DNA on the bra clasp - VERY tiny. Guede's DNA was all over the clasp and the bra strap, so why such a minute amount from S if he'd handled it? This "evidence" has been completely discredited when it was shown that the police scientist who collected it used visibly dirty gloves to do so. It's very likely that S's DNA (found elsewhere in the house) was transferred that way.

This has been a trial by media yet again. Not only is there nowhere near enough evidence to have convicted them in the first place - I think it's plain that the two are completely innocent.

Crutchlow35 Fri 29-Mar-13 14:04:47

Well said Ellie.

Portofino Fri 29-Mar-13 14:32:03

As I recall they found a black man's hair at the scene. They put this together with AKs last text message to Lumbaba "See you later" and concocted a nice little scenario imho. The fact that it wasn't remotely true didn't deter them. I would imagine that it was the police that brought Lumbaba's name into it. And once they had decided on the sex game gone wrong, they stuck with it, even after they arrested Guede, who had left DNA all over the place, then fled the country. Also, the log for the postal police shows that they were dispatched at 12.46 - just before Rafaelle phoned the police. They could not have been there before he did so. I also recall, that it was the calls AK (and Filomena?) made to Meredith's phones that alerted the householder to where they had been thrown at the end of her garden.

clarabellabunting Fri 29-Mar-13 14:38:26

The report says:
"Battistelli [of the Postal police] had had to get out of the car and walk along before finding the house, where he arrived with Assistant Marzi at a little after 12:30 pm"

It also says "As soon as they arrived, the young people – Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito – said that they were waiting for the carabinieri whom they had called since‚ coming back to the cottage in the morning because they had been away for the night‛ and finding ‚the entrance door open and then the window broken'"

And then later in the report where it details Sollicito's phonecalls, it says:
"12:51:40 Raffaele Sollecito called 112 to inform the Carabinieri of the presumed theft in Romanelli’s room (duration 169 seconds; connection to Via dell’Aquila 5-Torre dell’Acquedotto sector 1 cell, which covers Via della Pergola 7)"

So that call was after the Postal Police had arrived. And after they had told the Postal Police that they had called the Carabinieri.

clarabellabunting Fri 29-Mar-13 14:46:43

Also, it is not accurate to say that Knox "was interviewed without a lawyer present for 50 hours". That sounds like you are talking about 50 consecutive hours.

She was interviewed several times over the course of several (five?) days. I'm not sure whether they added up to 50 hours - do you know how the supposed 50 hours were arrived at?

In between her stints at the station, Knox went home, went to her Italian classes, met up with friends and ate out with Sollicito, etc. So I would hardly say that she was exhausted from 50 hours of questioning and rambling incoherantly by the time she accused Lumumba.

Her accusation of Lumumba was very strangly written though.

LittleAbruzzenBear Fri 29-Mar-13 14:50:38

Why do people on here assume that Amanda and Raffaele are innocent? For sure the Italian police cocked up the crime scene, but that doesn't automatically make them innocent little lambs either. I read Times reporter John Follain's book on the case and it backs up what Clarabella says. Not just strange behaviour, but changing statements and inconsistencies. That crime scene should have been closed off from the start. I feel for the Kerchers because the authorities fucked up and they will probably never get the truth. If Meredith had been my sister I wouldn't give up.

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