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A and E database

(226 Posts)
ZebraInHiding Thu 27-Dec-12 14:54:05

I thought they did this anyway? Don't they senda note to your health visitor?

Do you agree with it or do you think it will make people worry more? Whilst I can see the good in it, I worry that kids just won't get taken for help any more. Not sure what the solution is though. sad

Dromedary Thu 27-Dec-12 17:35:25

This will inevitably encourage parents (both good parents and those few who abuse) not to take their child to A & E. A&E departments already act as though on high alert if any child comes in. A high percentage of parents who take their children into A&E are referred through to other agencies as suspicious.

clam Thu 27-Dec-12 17:35:46

My dd has been to A&E around half a dozen times for various broken/suspected bits (she's 14). Last time we went (ds 'accidentally' bent her finger back in a fight for the last jam tart!) I was a bit blush with the nurse and asked jokingly if we were on some 'list' and she laughed, looked at her screen and said "good God, no. You last came in on x date, and before that it was y date and z date - no need to worry. You'd have to be in here a lot more than that."

Dromedary Thu 27-Dec-12 17:54:04

I'm sure they're a lot less suspicious with teenagers. And the ethos will no doubt vary between hospitals.
I took my DC then 6 in with a high temperature and vomiting. Had not been in for a v long time before that, with a minor injury. The nurses asked me whether DC had EVER been to A&E before. I said, yes, obviously (doesn't every child have a minor accident occasionally?). They then acted shocked and outraged and got into a bitchy huddle. It only got worse from there.

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn Thu 27-Dec-12 18:04:03

I'm not worried about this.
My DD was blue-lighted to A&E two weekends in a row - cue visit from the health visitor. The incidents were completely unrelated and not untoward, so a visit was all it was.

I'd rather they are able to spot abused children.

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn Thu 27-Dec-12 18:06:27

Also, I don't think it would stop me from taking my DCs to A&E if its needed.

slartybartfast Thu 27-Dec-12 18:07:12

ok child comes in to a and e with symptoms. doctors suspect munchausen, or whatever t is called now. look on data base and actually see visits to gps, hvs, and other hospitals, as parentr probably moves around, due to the nature of the munchasuon.
instead of playing detective, the ifnormation is all there.

other scenario, takes dc to hosptial with broken bone, sees on data base other symptoms from other hospitals etc, etc., and input from school, childrne's services, concerns raised from neighbours, and abuse is found out.

what is the harm?>

MrsJREwing Thu 27-Dec-12 18:08:50

Keema, what happens is your HV will file that, she may be nice to your face as truancy woman was to mine, all understanding etc then behind your back demanding and fighting with ss, ss will never inform you. Then years later you may as I did get a ss visit and things won't make sence and you will get files and see what went on behind your back years before.

Sirzy Thu 27-Dec-12 18:11:13

Slarty - I agree in principle that in cases like those you mentioned it could help.

I don't think it is some fantastic cure all system though, but I don't think such a thing does exist. It should be an improvement upon the system that is in place now where things vary from area to area and there is no standardised system to keep track on concerns.

MrsJREwing Thu 27-Dec-12 18:12:12

The harm is one two two years of fucking up innocent famies, one family with the condition had treatment removed from their child for a period, the strain is unbearable. It causes massive harm to innocent people.

I imagine each case costs the tax payer hundreds of thousands for causing harm to innocent people.

Dromedary Thu 27-Dec-12 18:12:54

You're assuming that they will only investigate and potentially intervene with parents who abuse their children. I would bet a great deal of money on your being wrong. Since Baby P there has been a huge swing to veering on the side of safety - which means intervening in families where in fact there is nothing wrong.

MrsJREwing Thu 27-Dec-12 18:16:40

The organisation for our condition has seen an explosion in false child abuse allegations recently, in families with genuine conditions being treated like criminal child abusers at the first turn guilty before assumed innocent, imho there is something very wrong in this country.

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn Thu 27-Dec-12 18:18:19

DS's SN means that we have loads of contact with various services including community paeds, social services and a lot of other stuff. I find them to be lovely and helpful.

slartybartfast Thu 27-Dec-12 18:20:57

but baby p and victoria C were such dreadful - preventable - cases.

preventing others with more openess and less secrecy between agencies parents must be worth it.

MrsJREwing Thu 27-Dec-12 18:22:13

Tell me they are lovely people after you get all copies of your files. [was once nieve too emotion]

OhMittens Thu 27-Dec-12 18:22:40

What's the solution then, to protect those children that really are being abused and taken to perhaps different A&E's on a regular basis? I have been to A&E on several occasions with my DC and have never been made to feel like I am somehow suspect. I am however, very open, co-operative and polite and don't mind any amount of questions even if some are asked twice or three times by different people. I would rather I go through some inconvenience because staff are being thorough than a child who is being abused slips through the net.

MrsJREwing Thu 27-Dec-12 18:24:14

I don't think it is worth causing harm to my child by the state for any readon, abuse of a child or adult however professionals excuse it is abuse, and they are abusing vulnerable families in this day and age.

Dromedary Thu 27-Dec-12 18:25:11

It is misleading to talk about Baby P and Victoria C as a reason for this kind of over-suspicion.
Both of those children were well known to SS as being at risk, and SS and/or the health service messed up hugely. In the Baby P case the doctor missed a broken back, FFS.

LaCiccolina Thu 27-Dec-12 18:26:48

Yes I like the idea that patterns can be spotted. Obviously I don't want kids abused in any way.

Why though does everyone have to be treated suspiciously to get that? If dh takes dd to H will he be viewed worse or will I? (Munchausen?!) accidents do actually happen, despite what health and safety would have u believe. Child abuse is still a minority an extremely sad /terrible one but nevertheless it is minority. I'm against the continual employment of databases as if they will cease all horrendous things in the world. It's just ridiculous.

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn Thu 27-Dec-12 18:27:35

I just don't see the conspiracy. We've had TAC meetings, the DCs have gone to A&E when they need to and the doctor when they need to. I've never been treated in any way but well and no one has looked askance at me or DH.

Do I think this will mean that lots of innocent parents will be suspected of abuse or become at risk of their child being removed - no I don't.

MrsJREwing Thu 27-Dec-12 18:29:42

The thing is this munchousens they are wetting themselves over was invented recently by the disgraced Roy Meadows who invented the incorrect odds regarding cotdeath, Sally Clark rip.

piglettsmummy Thu 27-Dec-12 18:30:53

It would make me nervous to take dd in. Although were regular visit to children's ward we have been to a&e 3 times but Hve been recently assessed by social services as I was reported to them. Case was closed with he social worker saying I shouldn't have been reported but I would be nervous to take her incase ss came to check up on us afterwards I think it is an awesome idea in terms of preventing another baby p cAse like I was recommended for but I would be worried to take her in x

MrsJREwing Thu 27-Dec-12 18:31:43

Professionals were lovely to me and the others with our condition, then you see what is said about you behind your back when you ask to see files.

MrsJREwing Thu 27-Dec-12 18:33:05

Then like Piglettsmummy you are "known to ss"

KeemaNaanAndCurryOn Thu 27-Dec-12 18:34:37

Muchausens by proxy (or fastidious illness) has been around for a lot longer than Roy Meadows. It tends to manifest itself with someone deliberately making their child ill, or pretending that their child is ill - ref Here where a mother pretended her child had cancer.

This is a long way removed from a child being taken to A&E multiple times with a range of unexplained injuries or illnesses. If the database can pick up that a child is being taken to a range of different A&E departments with unexplained injuries, that's going to set the klaxon's going much quicker than a child who has been in A&E a few times.

Sabriel Thu 27-Dec-12 18:36:50

keema, it might not stop you from taking your DC but it might stop an abuser from taking theirs. There was a case not long ago where a little girl died from having been scalded in the shower. Her mother wouldn't take her to A&E or the GP because she knew she'd get into trouble and the child died of septicaemia.

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