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I don't know one single reason why Scotland would want to quit the UK

(366 Posts)
ClementineKelandra Wed 14-Nov-12 11:50:50

I'm genuinely interested in the reasons why Scotland want to break away from the UK. I'm sure there must be many good ones but I jyst can't see any atm.

PoppyAmex Wed 14-Nov-12 14:06:45

"Denying the existence of an important part of the political spectrum because its more fashionable in certain circles to be left wing scares me."

Yes, people have left wing principles because it's fashionable hmm

Well said, sleepyhead - this obsession with Alex Salmond/SNP is ridiculous; people seem to forget they would still be allowed to vote!

ScarlettCrossbones Wed 14-Nov-12 14:07:20


Furoshika Wed 14-Nov-12 14:08:33

I know a good number of people who'd vote for a more right wing party if it didn't mean a Westminster Tory being in power. OK so they are in the minority, but right now they have only a tiny voice, and when the LDs go (which they will) they will have nobody to even grudgingly vote for. There's every opportunity for a more right-wing party here.

Aboutlastnight Wed 14-Nov-12 14:13:29

But we will still live in a democracy if Scotland was independent - unless Alex Salmond plans on a dictatorship.

OneMoreChap Wed 14-Nov-12 14:15:56

Scotland is a country which - in general - seems to have a differing view on social responsibility; different laws; a different education system.

The current government does not seem to recognise this.

Following the lies by the Scottish Labour party over decades, and the absence of a mandate for either of the other main parties North of the border, good luck to the independence campaign.

LessMissAbs Wed 14-Nov-12 14:18:05

A democracy where the First Minister has already demonstrated the ability and tendency to intervene personally in public planning decisions?

The courts in Scotland only have a similar power in the most exceptional of cases, after considerable review of due process.

It doesn't sound like a very well planned or thought out democracy thats likely to have the correct checks and balances put into place. Most decision making in the Scottish Parliament is already done by relatively secretive "committee".

There are plenty of examples of "democracies" around the world, which in practice, are nothing but.

But I guess the main point is will people want to live in an independent Scotland? You may attract rat race dropouts, but normal, hard working people (not obsessed with unions) who just want a decent standard of living in return for their taxes? I'm not seeing whats on offer unless you're a crony at the top of the pile, or someone blinded by rheotric and on benefits.

Well, I'm leaning towards voting yes. I believe Scotland is capable of looking after itself, and that centralisation leads to massive inefficiencies. I want to get away from the Tories in the short term, and develop Scotland as a democratic free-thinking nation in the long term.

And to those talking about how Scotland would become more sexist, cronyist etc, in what way does the Union with England prevent that from happening now? Furthermore, we're not talking about seceding from the EU, and the ECHR is enshrined in Scots law and has been since 1998.

OneMoreChap Wed 14-Nov-12 14:20:29

I'm Scottish, married to a Scot, and though we don't live in Scotland currently, I absolutely do not want Scottish independance.

Fortunately, perhaps, you won't get a vote then?
English, higher rate tax-payer, living and working in Scotland. I absolutely do want Scottish independence... and I get to vote grin

LessMisAbs, so in your words, people who want to live in an independent Scotland are:

Rat race dropouts
Blinded by rhetoric and on benefits?

Charming. hmm

PoppyAmex Wed 14-Nov-12 14:23:30

"A democracy where the First Minister has already demonstrated the ability and tendency to intervene personally in public planning decisions?"

Like LessMissAbs', many people's arguments against Independence are rooted on their aversion to Alex Salmond/SNP, which misses the point spectacularly.

Might as well make the referendum question: "Should Alex Salmond be the omnipotent Emperor of Scotland?"

LessMissAbs Wed 14-Nov-12 14:26:09

No, its an aversion to absolutism and to those who seek to avoid criticism.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Wed 14-Nov-12 14:26:42

Had to smile at LessMiss' coo...

PoppyAmex Wed 14-Nov-12 14:28:11

LessMiss fortunately you won't have to worry about that since you said you would leave Scotland if "Yes" wins

and you shan't be missed grin

Furoshika Wed 14-Nov-12 14:29:00

This thread is making me lean towards yes, for the moment. grin
There are a lot of things to say about some people and their attitudes, some horrible ingrained types of behaviour and upbringing: but these aren't "Scottish" in and of themselves. I mean, to have on a list of reasons to not be an independent nation that Scotland is more sexist (highly disputable in any case!) is not really contributing to the political debate.

ScarlettCrossbones Wed 14-Nov-12 14:29:28

But LessMiss, that aversion also has nothing to do with independence.

And sexism, absolutism, cronyism, avoidance of criticism etc don't exist south of the border?

prettybird Wed 14-Nov-12 14:34:30

Nicola Sturgeon is the only politician I have come across who campaigned door-to-door, actually listened to what dh and I were saying and didn't talk across us. We actually had a good debate (and dh is not always the easiest of guys to argue with wink). I have a lot of time for her.

I have no idea who I would vote for if Scotland were to achieve independence. I'd like to hope that both the Labour and LibDem parties as well as the Tories could re-invent themselves in a way that was relevant to Scottish voters and not just toe the Westminster line. That way we could have a genuine choice and not just vote for monkeys in red blue yellow whatever colour rosettes.

ScarlettCrossbones Wed 14-Nov-12 14:34:50

These days I feel like a Scottish version of Bob Marley, just hangin' out with a beatific grin on my face going "Hey maaaaan, it'll be alright!" <peacesign> I'm almost certain we'll win independence in 2014. As one of my friends said "We just need that length of time to teach people not to worry [about Scotland post-independence]." smile

Most of the (few) people I know who are against independence are full of outraged bluster, huffing and puffing, risking their blood pressure and, um, not coming up with any convincing arguments which tempt me for a second to vote no.

grin at OneMoreChap.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 14-Nov-12 14:35:40

so to ignore LessMiss's weird ranting for a while, does anyone know if we are going to get the financials straight BEFORE the ballot?

Furoshika Wed 14-Nov-12 14:39:13

I want the answer to that too, AitchTooOh. It is something of a deal breaker.

SundaeGirl Wed 14-Nov-12 14:40:32

I get to vote and I'll be voting no. No-one in my social group wants to separate so I think it does depend on which circles you move in.

It's all about understanding economics. Lots of 'Yes' people talk like caerlaverock 'federal UK', 'sterling bloc', etc. making assumptions about keeping the pound. Someone on here suggested that the Bank of England would be changing it's name (really). It's all so deluded. The English don't want a shared currency - they've spelled that out to Europe pretty clearly.

And why, why, do Yes types say they're going for 'independence' when the representation they have in Westminster is so much more significant than the influence they imagine we'd have in Europe. We'd be zero in Europe!

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 14-Nov-12 14:40:39

isn't it, though?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 14-Nov-12 14:41:57

what is your social circle, sundae? there presumably is a demographic element to this, where do you fit in, would you say?

Furoshika Wed 14-Nov-12 14:43:03

From what I gather, the sums are still being done. It is a worry. And if we don't get to see the workings, well more fool them, really.

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