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I don't know one single reason why Scotland would want to quit the UK

(366 Posts)
ClementineKelandra Wed 14-Nov-12 11:50:50

I'm genuinely interested in the reasons why Scotland want to break away from the UK. I'm sure there must be many good ones but I jyst can't see any atm.

WhereYouLeftIt Wed 14-Nov-12 12:56:54

Why does any country want independence? To not be ruled by those perceived to be outsiders. Scotland is considerably more socialist in outlook than England; but with just a tenth of the population of England, it will always be outvoted in Westminster.

lollilou Wed 14-Nov-12 12:58:14

As a human race how can we move forward as a whole when some people want to carve up the UK into little pieces. Surely this is only going to breed more hatred and racism between England, Scotland and Wales. We should be looking to the future as one nation.

prettybird Wed 14-Nov-12 12:58:40

My councillor is a Conservative and is extremely good! smile

It does help that he's "the only Tory on the council" and as such, not bound by any vested interests. So much so, that I voted for him in the recent council elections. The only time I have ever voted Tory blush

His girlfriend is SNP though grin

ScarlettCrossbones Wed 14-Nov-12 12:59:46

• To give us the right to determine our own futures
• To be governed by people we have actually voted for
• Because we would be fine, financially

"... on 13 January 1997 when, in reply to a series of questions put by SNP Leader in the Commons, Alex Salmond MP to the then Tory government, Treasury Minister William Waldegrave admitted that Scotland had paid a massive £27 billion more to the London Exchequer than it had received since the Tories came to power in 1979. Statistically this works out at £5,400 for every Scot. There were no attempts to refute these figures, which caused much embarrassment to the Tory Government of the day. However, the facts were quickly covered up by the Unionist controlled media. "

"...based on Scotland's GDP per capita, Scotland would occupy 7th place in the world's wealth league. The UK was at 17th Place."

"taking the year 2006 as a benchmark, I found that Scotland had an annual relative surplus of £2,8 billion, which works out at £560 for every man, woman and child. In contrast the UK had a deficit of £34.8 billion. "

More to the point, can the No campaign give us a positive reason for STAYING in the union? Things like BonaDea's "I hate the idea" is not very convincing ... WHY do you hate the idea? And merlotits, WHY does your DH think Scotland wouldn't survive?

Seriously, if you're living in Scotland and worried, simply do your research. So much of it is, unsurprisingly, covered up by the pro-unionist media. It's just a fear of the unknown. Independence is a normal state of affairs for a small country such as ours, and honestly, it will be fine. Better than fine. thanks

Shesparkles Wed 14-Nov-12 12:59:50

Scottish living in Scotland here.
Totally and absolutely against it. I know only 2 people who are in favour and they have been SNP supporters all my life.
Politics are NOT spoken about in their company grin

Furoshika Wed 14-Nov-12 13:00:47

Having grown up with my Scottish relations quite keen on the idea, I can say it's definitely not a new notion: some Scots have wanted this for many decades. Don't underestimate how ingrained and emotional it is. Not SNP supporters necessarily (there was a time when the SNP were thought of on a par with the Tories almost) but Old Labour types who have seen the Party go down the pan, are watching England slowly implode financially and socially, and have seen better socialist policies being pursued up here over the past few years than they could have dreamed of, the downside being that it's an inherently mistrusted SNP majority which is delivering them.

There is not enough information. Salmond and the Yes lobby are not being trusted to be truthful, it's obvious that Scotland has been massaged into accepting independence by things like free prescriptions and free tertiary education, and if we don't see something very concrete very soon about the sustainability of those sorts of things (better elderly care provision, for example, is going to affect a large number of the people I mentioned initially, very soon) then it's going to be tougher for the SNP. People do want answers.

But we watch the goings-on doon sooth and cannot figure out how the next election is going to go. Labour haven't sprung back from defeat and Miliband isn't a convincing prime minister. Obviously the Lib Dems are utterly fucked. Hardly anyone professes to support the Tories but when it comes to it, who the hell does the small-c conservative vote for now the LDs aren't anywhere?

Contrast that with up here, where we are being led, we are being provided for...lots and lots of Scots don't want to be part of whatever the hell is going on with your politics, which have forever left many people here feeling provincial and patronised. Right now you seem to be puttering out under the Tories. It doesn't matter that it's this temporary Tory government, they're all the same. Cameron's government is managing to compound the emotional response a good number of older Scots have to independence. Salmond must be rubbing his hands.

ScarlettCrossbones Wed 14-Nov-12 13:00:50

lollilou, by extension, should the whole world be a single country then? grin

ScarlettCrossbones Wed 14-Nov-12 13:02:26

Shesparkles, what are your reasons for being against it?

mrskeithrichards Wed 14-Nov-12 13:11:10

whereyouleftit sums it up. In many ways I feel it's the only way for us to go to ensure we don't lose our integrity.

LessMissAbs Wed 14-Nov-12 13:13:00

Its so the SNP can control a small country and give all the jobs and contracts to their friends and cronies, of course!

Bleating on about socialism and helping the poor is simply a means of convincing that sector of society to stay where they are and vote for them.

somebloke123 Wed 14-Nov-12 13:13:36

Independence for Scotland is a perfectly reasonable aspiration. (I'm English btw.) It might become another Iceland , a much smaller country but which (despite recent banking problems) retains control of its fisheries and other resources.

What doesn't make sense is for it to become "independent" but remain in the EU, where it would just be one more region (possibly forced to join the Euro) to be pushed around by Brussels with no political clout whatever.

lollilou Wed 14-Nov-12 13:13:37

ScarlettCrossbones One step at a

mrskeithrichards Wed 14-Nov-12 13:13:57

Scotland is not a right wing nation. Our vote counts for nothing on a national level. I want to feel listened to and respected not constantly cast as the poor relation bleating in the corners about how they'd do it differently. I want us to stand up and get on with it. We might not rule the world or start wars but we'll be just fine.

mrskeithrichards Wed 14-Nov-12 13:16:19

That small country is the only one the snp care about though - what you say is quite odd, as if the Scottish Nationalists are just on the hunt for any random small country.

PoppyAmex Wed 14-Nov-12 13:17:27

"I don't think the rest of Britain would or should just hand over large swathes of the North Sea."

You mean Scotland's coastline? As someone up thread said, I don't see how you can argue with Geography.

prettybird Wed 14-Nov-12 13:17:37

Should Ireland have been allowed independence from the UK?

Should Iceland have been allowed independence from Denmark?

Should Greenland be part of Denmark?

Should Norway be part of Sweden?

Actually, the Scandinavian countries are an interesting example: tensions while they were "together" but a strong block of friends with common interests once they were allowed to stand on their own.

PoppyAmex Wed 14-Nov-12 13:18:57

Also, this notion that voting for Independence means being ruled by the SNP forever is bizarre.

It would still be a Democratic country.

EnglishGirlApproximately Wed 14-Nov-12 13:20:10

Can I ask a question please? A couple of people have mentioned different values. Can I ask what you perceive these to be? I'm English and have lived in Scotland. The furthest south I've lived is Birmingham and have never noticed a big difference in values. I have always lived in largely labour voting, working class areas. I just wonder whether its London, South East and wealthy areas that have the different values iyswim.

Furoshika Wed 14-Nov-12 13:22:21

Psst it was Denmark which ruled Norway for donkey's years...

lol at "you can't argue with geography" the idea that an independent country shouldn't for some reason have control over its coastline and waters is laughable.

Aboutlastnight Wed 14-Nov-12 13:24:16

I am English living in Scotland and I think, on balance, I am pro- independence.

Scottish Labour is a not fit to run a country. I like the way the Scottish Government spends my money - free prescriptions, care for the elderly, I like the education system and Scotland's NHS.

I feel the country is rather hamstrung by the policies of Westminster which is often at odds with the needs and aspirations of the people. Independence is an exciting prospect.

Furoshika Wed 14-Nov-12 13:25:10

EnglishGirlApprox I don't think we do have different values, really. Personally I don't like that phrase being used.

I do think there's a different 'feel' to Scotland but it's the same sort of indefinable difference as you get between regions (within Scotland as well), and not really part of a political discussion.

maddening Wed 14-Nov-12 13:25:39

There is a tense history between England and Scotland going back centuries.

Even relatively recently huge oppression of the Scottish national identity - the same in Wales - my friend's mum was made to wear a slate round her neck for speaking Welsh in school.

So with this still in living memory plus a rejuvenation of the national identities it is hardly surprising that there is an appetite for it - how to do it is another question.

I am English but I love Scotland and went to uni there and hope to move ( or emigrate smile ) back there eventually as it is an amazing place.

shesariver Wed 14-Nov-12 13:26:18

I don't think the rest of Britain would or should just hand over large swathes of the North Sea

A bit confused here - are you saying Scotlands coastline doesnt actually belong to Scotland but England or Wales?
Going by that logic I want to claim the oil producing waters in the Middle east as ours to!

Belmo Wed 14-Nov-12 13:28:33

I'm Scottish, and every single person I've ever spoken to about it will be voting for independence. I can't wait. We didn't vote for this Tory government. I think the SNP have been fantastic.

BuntyCollocks Wed 14-Nov-12 13:28:55

Scotland doesn't, Alex Salmond does. I'm Scottish, married to a Scot, and though we don't live in Scotland currently, I absolutely do not want Scottish independance.

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