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UK forced adoptions of foreign nationals

(346 Posts)
Hummingbirds Sun 11-Nov-12 21:34:11

This is sick! How come in Slovakia the media has reported on this extensively and they've had demonstrations outside the British embassy yet here in the UK there's been almost total silence? With a few honourable exceptions including journalist Christopher Booker and MP John Hemming.

"... The case that goes to the Appeal Court this week concerns two young boys, Slovakian subjects, whose parents have lived and worked in Britain since their country joined the EU in 2004. Two years ago, when the parents took one of their sons to hospital to enquire about a minor infection, social workers were alerted that it might be the result of a 'non-accidental injury'. The boys were put into the temporary care of the family's American pastor, who describes how social workers then arrived with three police cars to remove the children, screaming as they were torn from their horrified mother and grandmother, to an official foster home.

"Thus began a protracted legal battle, involving many court hearings, four different social workers, seven 'expert' doctors and psychologists, 16 interpreters, 13 different 'contact supervisors' and dozens of lawyers. Initially the local authority seemed happy to contemplate that the children might be returned to live with their grandmother in Slovakia, but the social workers of a council that advertises its enthusiasm for adoption on its website then suggested to the foster carers that they might like to adopt the boys.

"By now the Slovak authorities were involved and could see no reason why the children should not come back to live with their grandmother. But earlier this year a judge found in favour of the council, ruling, to the astonishment of the Slovak authorities, that the boys should be adopted."

"The case has attracted widespread media interest in Slovakia, and the Slovak justice ministry has posted on its website a 'Declaration on adoption of Slovak children in the UK', stating that it has such 'serious concern' over the workings of Britain's 'family protection' system, and the readiness of the British authorities to remove children from their 'biological parents' for 'no sound reason', that its representative on the ECHR plans to challenge the legality of Britain's policy in Strasbourg."

"... the Slovak media claim to know of some 30 other Slovak children taken from their parents."

Read the full Telegraph article

Hummingbirds Thu 15-Nov-12 23:43:00

The very fact that large numbers of social workers have invaded this thread to defend the system in a knee-jerk fashion is deeply worrying. If even top surgeons can botch things, then clearly no profession is safe from incompetent practitioners.

"Police are investigating a breast cancer surgeon who could have performed needless or botched operations on more than 1,000 women" Police investigate surgeon who 'misdiagnosed' breast cancer

Well, it is common knowledge: police, doctors and social workers like to protect their own.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Thu 15-Nov-12 23:56:15

You have had 4 posters disagree, how is that inundated.

Hummingbirds Fri 16-Nov-12 00:23:58

Can you declare your interest here, Troll? Are you a social worker?

Because I have absolutely zero vested interest here. My interest simply lies in a desire to see natural justice done and to have a high threshold of sound evidence before families are ripped apart.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Fri 16-Nov-12 00:26:32

My interest is reading a thread on the internet

VirginiaDare Fri 16-Nov-12 00:32:05

Large numbers of social workers? Where?
You sound awfully paranoid.

Hummingbirds Fri 16-Nov-12 00:51:18

90% of the responses on this thread have been from posters denying that there is anything wrong with the family justice system. On another thread it was pointed out that whenever John Hemming posts on Mumsnet he gets attacked by posters who are social workers.

If no social workers have posted on this thread in defence of their colleagues then I stand corrected.

To be honest, when I started this thread, I genuinely expected other posters to be as outraged as I was at these blatant miscarriages of justice. To remove children from their parents and put them up for adoption on flimsy 'evidence' by professionals who have a vested interest ought to outrage any decent person.

Devora Fri 16-Nov-12 01:37:20

Where are the social workers on this thread? I don't see any.

Neither do I see people denying that there is anything wrong with the family justice system. I for one am happy to discuss it. Just without the conspiracy theories and collective guilt.

Oh, and Mr Hemmings has had a fair bit of flak on Mumsnet because of his habit of starting threads in the adoption area in order to insult and patronise the adoptive parents there.

Devora Fri 16-Nov-12 01:39:46

So what is your source of information on all this, Hummingbird?

MrsHoarder Fri 16-Nov-12 02:17:32

I'm curious, what at british social workers supposed to do when worried about the welfare of a child with forth national parents? Obviously its going to be difficult to be sure they will be safe if sent out of the UK, and forced adoptions do happen, what the important question is whether these are fair and just forced adoptions?

VirginiaDare Fri 16-Nov-12 08:10:51

Nobody said there is nothing at all wrong with justice system. And assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is a social worker is showing a gap in logic that characterises the rest of your points. hmm

johnhemming Fri 16-Nov-12 10:12:05

>Oh, and Mr Hemmings has had a fair bit of flak on Mumsnet because of his
>habit of starting threads in the adoption area in order to insult and patronise
>the adoptive parents there.

This is a claim for which you can provide evidence (ie put a link to one of the threads). Please do so.

johnhemming Fri 16-Nov-12 17:03:12

So Devora has made a claim, but cannot substantiate it. Basically because the claim is not true. Something seen a lot in family court proceedings.

BoneyBackJefferson Fri 16-Nov-12 19:05:42


this whole thread is based on a un substantiated claim by the "slovak media"

Devora Fri 16-Nov-12 21:49:23

Hey John, I have a job. And when I'm at work, I'm not on MN (like you, I'm paid by the taxpayer).

You want evidence for your insulting and patronising behaviour on adoption threads? Why don't you do a search on your own name, and find those threads where we have told you - directly and unequivocally - that you are insulting and patronising us?

Hummingbirds Sat 17-Nov-12 00:42:59

Devora ~ "conspiracy theories and collective guilt"

What conspiracy theories? What collective guilt?

BoneyBack ~ "this whole thread is based on a un substantiated claim by the "slovak media""

No it is not. Read the original post and first page of the thread.

bureni Sat 17-Nov-12 00:53:48

"British law" whats that then? lol

BoneyBackJefferson Sat 17-Nov-12 10:11:32

""... the Slovak media claim to know of some 30 other Slovak children taken from their parents."

Read the full Telegraph article"

Its an article about an article, which is rumour because the courts are held in secret (which you may know about smile )and we will only ever hear one side of the story because the other is not allowed to speak.

johnhemming Sat 17-Nov-12 13:47:56

a) The Slovak Government have identified 40 cases involving 89 children where they have concerns.
b) One of the cases was in the court of appeal in the RCJ yesterday and the appeal was allowed. There will be a published, but anonymous judgment, relating to this case at some stage.

BoneyBackJefferson Sat 17-Nov-12 17:15:27

So if the report can't even get the numbers right how can "we" trust the rest?

johnhemming Sat 17-Nov-12 17:36:08

I am giving you the up to date figures to the best of my knowledge. Obviously they didn't start out having 40 cases, but after a while they found 40 cases. The number is probably higher now, but the last time we spoke to the slovak government they gave the figure of 40.

Hummingbirds Sat 17-Nov-12 17:48:16

If someone could explain the obsession of a number of posters here with "conspiracy theory", I'd be grateful. This thread is about the exceedingly low threshold of evidence for removal of children from their biological parents and the permanent psychological damage caused to the children thus removed. Where does conspiracy come into it?

This is a genuine question. I am puzzled.

johnhemming Sat 17-Nov-12 17:56:45

probably best to ask David Icke's lizards.

JaquelineHyde Sat 17-Nov-12 19:29:25

I'm a student social worker. Am I allowed to have an opinion on this thread or will I just be shouted down as looking out for my own kind hmm

I have experience of both sides of the coin here, my sister has had her only daughter removed and is probably going to have her unborn child removed at birth. The way she has been treated has been appaling, she has been lied to, pressured and decisions have clearly been made before full assessments have been carried out. However, the result was (and will be again) the correct decision.

On the otherside my dh's ex (and biological mother of my two beautiful daughters) was time and again given the benefit of the doubt by SS, she had services and support thrown at her and yet still she abused and then abandonned her children in a different county where no one knew them. The children (4 of them at the time and one unborn dd) were hideously damaged by the entire farce and all of this because SS decided to keep the children with their birth mother despite removal clearly being the better decision. During the full assessment and court papers it turned out she had already had one child removed by another LA's SS and her other children (prior to dh meeting her) had been placed on the child protection register. She kept it all secret, moved around and managed to ruin children's lives.

I suspect if either of the 'mothers' mentioned above came to you with their cases you could probably bend it and twist it to fit your agenda perfectly, ignoring the fact that the best outcome for all the children involved was removal. A very sad fact but a realistic one.

However, as I have already told you I am a student social worker you will probably dismiss my life experience and opinions because they do not fit with your agenda.

johnhemming Sat 17-Nov-12 19:54:15

I am simply saying there are a large number of cases where the decisions are wrong. Some of these are where children are removed when they shouldn't be.

Xenia Sat 17-Nov-12 20:06:08

It's not just the Slovak case. There are others. I think an Indian one too, lots of them. Of course also English families are affected too. In so many cases there rae willing grandparents or uncles and aunts available too and still they go ahead. I would be pretty happy if we abolished adoption altogether. It's such a final thing.

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