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Newsnight Fri 2 Nov please watch v Important you know who is running the country

(1000 Posts)
MrsjREwing Fri 02-Nov-12 11:53:32

Tom Watkins tweeted a seniour politician will be outed tonight and Max Clifford said on Daybreak shocking news will be released by the BBC today.

MadameDefarge Fri 09-Nov-12 18:10:10

I get it strawberry. i dont have compassion. far from it. but it is worthy of discussion. some people must struggle and conquer their impulses. many dont. and for those who dont am quite of the hang draw and quarter the.m. but for those who do? until we really know why the impulse is intense we cant start to address the elimination of it. there are no easy answers.

MrsjREwing Fri 09-Nov-12 18:09:08

eh? Steve said Lord M was who he thought it was, now realises it wasn't Lord M. Scratching my head here!

FiercePanda Fri 09-Nov-12 18:05:44

Another X-post, sorry Chaz.

member Fri 09-Nov-12 18:05:08

Channel 4 news tonight Paraic O'Brien‏@paraicobrien

SteveMeesham has told me LordMacAlpine is NOT man he identified to police in 90s. He wants to apologise to LordMacAlpine

FiercePanda Fri 09-Nov-12 18:04:54

Steve Meesham has released a statement saying that, after seeing a photo, Lord McA is not the person who abused him.

I don't know - the thing is that the McAlpine family owned (still own?) two large homes in the Wrexham area so the speculation is now moving the direction of possibly a member of the family but not Lord McA.

Messham didn't name LMcA on TV and, if its correct that he said his abuser was dead, then it never was Lord McA.

MadameDefarge Fri 09-Nov-12 18:02:37

yes pag. my first memory of it was being taken upstairs to have eyedrops administered. quite why than involved my genitalia remains unknown. i was four. you might not want to sweep all 12 stone of me in your arms and kiss away the hurt. but that child is still alive in me. as is the 16 year old.

wildstrawberryplace Fri 09-Nov-12 18:00:55

I am shocked at the way this thread has gone. I think Xenia's comments were questionable. Paedophilia may at a stretch be considered a pathology, but a sexuality that we should be compassionate about? Come off it. First of all let's deal with abuse that is still happening to children and stop the climate of unaccountability.

I too am a childhood abuse survivor. Are my feelings somehow less valid than yours?

This is a very familiar feeling to me. Yes, you were abused how awful dear now let's sweep it under the carpet and ask how everyone else is feeling.

I save my compassion for those whose lives are dogged with sorrow and guilt and darkness and yet who are somehow blamed for the fact they were abused. Steven M is already being discredited.

Pagwatch Fri 09-Nov-12 17:59:10

Oh marvellous x-post

Thanks Chaz smile

Xenia Fri 09-Nov-12 17:58:44

Thanks MadameD.
I don't think anyone is really disagreeing. We all want children protected. I do think looking at the solution longer term is good, however. If from birth some people are made like this (as many people are) then we need to research how that difference arises. There may be even be a genetic test for it or something we can do to ensure it is wiped out. We live in amazing times in terms of human genome research

MadameDefarge Fri 09-Nov-12 17:58:15

thanks chaz. appreciated.

Pagwatch Fri 09-Nov-12 17:57:45

Actually it's quite interesting MadameD

When I first tried to talk about my abuse people found it really difficult. Not one person involved said 'god, how awful. We are sorry we didn't know'

I think once we are adult people cease to see us as the children who were so appallingly treated. And I think the more you talk, the more 'capable' and unvictimy you seem.
It's like the thing ceases to be real, becomes distant and unimaginable.

I remember my first abuse. I was about two. I could describe the room, how I felt and it still feels so awful, shameful. But the world just sees a mouthy fairly robust person. And I am mouthy and robust.
But the fact that people just want to move on and shout about Cameron and Saville because they are just so fucking angry and sorry for the victims is par for the course really.

It's odd indeed.

MadameDefarge Fri 09-Nov-12 17:56:30

Pag, k ow your place. look fragile...let your lower lip wobble, but for heaven's sake dont try and talk to the grown ups. they are very; very busy frothing on our behalf. where is your gratitude? tssk!

Pag MadameD this must be a difficult time for you both.

I know when Princess Di died all the media coverage brought up a lot of feelings about the death of my mother when I was teenager - stuff I thought I had dealt with.

I hope this whole situation is at least a start of a process where child abuse victims get taken seriously.

FiercePanda Fri 09-Nov-12 17:55:51

I meant to put "allegedly" in quote marks, it reads badly without them. An edit button, an edit button, my kingdom for an edit button.

FiercePanda Fri 09-Nov-12 17:53:25

The people using this horrible scandal as some kind of exercise in Tory-bashing make me sick. This is NOTHING to do with party politics and EVERYTHING to do with children being abused by people in power, the abuse being covered up and the victims survivors having no voice at all. Survivors like Steven Meesham are ALREADY being discredited - that Guardian article about it being "mistaken identity" was worded horribly, gave me the impression that, "well, if one survivor's evidence could be mistaken, couldn't the whole thing be a silly mistake"?

This isn't a WHODUNNIT, but the majority of the media/rumours online are making it out to be something like that. Only Channel 4 seem to be focusing on giving the abused space to speak about the crimes (allegedly) done to them, and try to find some kind of justice.

Pagwatch Fri 09-Nov-12 17:51:05

Ok. Well that makes no sense to me but I guess we are all different.
To me abuse is sickening. A patronising tone of voice is annoying. They are not on a par.

MadameDefarge Fri 09-Nov-12 17:48:11

need a step up to that high horse? here use me. im used to that. i can garantee that pag and i over the years have considered the origins of the sexua violation of children in much greater depth than those of you who consider yourselves the guardians of moral outrage. shame, shame, shame on you.

ssd Fri 09-Nov-12 17:42:00

yes pagwatch, sickened by DC's tone of voice, patronising in the extreme

Pagwatch Fri 09-Nov-12 17:41:37

The irony of the victims once again being shoved to one side because it suits some people agendas is making my irony o meter beep.

I wish occasionally what we (survivors) think was at least considered.

I have had this stuff bothering me for decades and now it is all coming out it is just being sidelined while people ride their own particular agenda

MadameDefarge Fri 09-Nov-12 17:41:12

its all fucked up pag. everybody has an agenda...

MadameDefarge Fri 09-Nov-12 17:37:44

indeed pag. quite sticks in my you were then tunip. nice to know iam despised by those who are apparently overwrought by pain and horror at what i have experienced. so much for the voices of victims must be heard, eh?

Pagwatch Fri 09-Nov-12 17:37:05

How are you doing Madame?

I am finding the diverting of this solely into an anti-Tory thing quite difficult tbh.

TunipTheHollowVegemalLantern Fri 09-Nov-12 17:32:40

You think Jimmy Savile and abusers of his ilk had a heavy cross to bear too then?

OK then, time for me to stop fucking well 'squacking my indignation' as you so delightfully put it and leave the thread. I don't honestly want to hang around and talk to people who feel like that.

Pagwatch Fri 09-Nov-12 17:32:37

'Sickened'? By a tone of voice.
Regarding this issue?

Er, no. I save 'sickened' for things like abuse.

And he was talking to Philip Schofield who was doing something spectacularly thick so talking down to him like he was an idiot was fairly apt.

Madame - I fel your pain. Having to defend Xenia and David Cameron on one thread is making me feel quite peculiar.

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