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Nine in ten Scots 'living off the state'

(45 Posts)
SkippyYourFriendEverTrue Tue 09-Oct-12 14:30:06

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/9593135/Nine-in-ten-Scots-living-off-states-patronage.html

"Only 283,080 households north of the border – 12 per cent of the total – pay more in tax than they receive in public services."

RubberNeckerNicker Tue 09-Oct-12 14:32:10

And your point is?

LadySybildeChocolate Tue 09-Oct-12 14:33:06

Poor Scots. There must be more of them working part time or in low pay jobs then anywhere else. It just shows how severe the pay divide between the North and South really is. sad Maybe the Conservatives need to do something to sort this out? The pay divide I mean.

LFCisTarkaDahl Tue 09-Oct-12 14:35:00

That statistics all skew-whiff - it doesn't mean that 88% of Scots are claiming benefits, the way I understand it is that it is more complicated - infrastructure is more of a cost in Scotland, wages are generally lower, public services cost more to run because of rural living etc.

MrsSalvoMontalbano Tue 09-Oct-12 14:35:02

Vive Scottish independence!

Earlybird Tue 09-Oct-12 14:36:46

What is the unemployment rate there? Can people not find work, or is available work too low paying?

Whitecherry Tue 09-Oct-12 14:42:05

How can it be too 'low paying'? There is nmw....and tax credits

sleepyhead Tue 09-Oct-12 14:42:50

Since her figures are about public spending (so include spending on health care and education as well as benefits), they are largely meaningless unless compared to the rest of the UK.

Anyone have similar figures for Wales, NI or England?

amck5700 Tue 09-Oct-12 14:43:13

How does that equate with the bt in the article that says - "According to the most recent figures, Scotland contributed 9.6 per cent of Britain’s tax take and accounted for 9.3 per cent of public spending." ??

...and I wonder what the equivalent figures are for other areas of the UK? The statistics dont add up because the majority of the wealthiest people who pay the biggest % of their income in tax, live in the South east. It doesn't mean that people in Scotland are paying less tax based onn their earnings or that more are living of benefits. It's a complete load of spin.

LadySybildeChocolate Tue 09-Oct-12 14:46:21

That's what they mean by 'benefits' isn't it, whitecherry? It could also mean DLA, which is paid whether people work full time or not.

bureni Tue 09-Oct-12 14:46:29

Unemployment is currently around 8.2% in both Scotland and N.I with both regions traditionally having much lower wages than the south of England, I know trades people who are working for barely more than the NMW in N.I.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 09-Oct-12 14:47:33

It may not mean they are disproportionately living off benefits but it does presumably mean that Scotland is highly dependent on Westminster for a big chunk of its income and that, should it become independent and only have direct tax revenue to rely upon, there would have to be some difficult choices made by an independent Scottish government. There's already been a report this week questioning whether so many universal benefits north of the border is sustainable long-term.

sleepyhead Tue 09-Oct-12 14:48:00

To find out if you're "living off the state" according to dear Ruth's rules, you would need to take your families' tax contribution and then subtract all healthcare, benefits, education, council services etc etc etc and see if you were paying in more than you were "taking".

So yes, many tax payers will make a net gain from the system. I'm not sure what's so surprising about that tbh. Could be a net gain of 50p and you'd still be a scrounger in Ruth's book.

SkippyYourFriendEverTrue Tue 09-Oct-12 14:50:53

I don't think it implies scrounging, I would suggest it implies a very unequal society with few well-paid jobs. And perhaps an unsustainable level of state subsidy.

sleepyhead Tue 09-Oct-12 14:52:27

Most people will read it as scrounging. And that's very bad news for Ruth and her party when she gets home.

I guess when you're at the Tory Conference you forget what a dire state your party's in. Well, I'm sure Dave'll find her a safe seat somewhere.

amck5700 Tue 09-Oct-12 14:55:44

It also depends on the point in your life you are at. For many years I was a healthy young tax payer with no dependants etc so was pretty much paying a whack just to get my bin emptied and have roads to travel on. Now I have children who require to be educated so I guess we cost a lot more - I am however raising 2 future tax payers so it will balance out in the end.

bureni Tue 09-Oct-12 14:56:00

Things are unequal simply because London has a higher population than Scotland, Northern Ireland and ROI combined, thats a lot more people earning a lot more money but paying a lot more tax, its is the concentration of the population that makes for the imbalance.

SkippyYourFriendEverTrue Tue 09-Oct-12 15:05:45

I think a lot of people in London are NOT earning a lot of money, but if you are implying that there are so many high earns in London that they can subsidise Scotland, that's probably not a message the SNP would appreciate.

TheCunningStunt Tue 09-Oct-12 15:11:15

I believe everything I read...

bureni Tue 09-Oct-12 15:17:40

Skippy I disagree, people in London, the south in general earn a lot more than someone doing the same job in the north ,Scotland or N.I. My eldest was working in London as an electrician and earned 3 times as much as he would have here (N.I) for working the same hours.

TheCunningStunt Tue 09-Oct-12 15:19:33

I am Scottish, have lived and worked all around the uk. Doing the same job in London was definately better paid than in Scotland. But the cost of living in London was also higher.

poppyknot Tue 09-Oct-12 15:25:28

Meaningless as amck5700 says unless compared to the rest of the UK.

I take it to mean that when all education, health etc is taken into cnosideration then most households 'get' more than they pay in tax.

^ Miss Davidson supported her claims by publishing figures from the Office for National Statistics, which showed the average Scottish household consumes £14,151 more in public services every year than it pays in tax.

Even the families in the middle income groups consume around £20,000 more in state spending than they contribute.^

I would have thought that those figures were true across the UK - that those earning quite decent incomes were still 'consuming' more than they put in. More to do with tax rates and how public services are provided really than a shock horror those state reliant Scots story....... It is known (and oft repeated) that the tax take say from the top 10% provides many times more that in the actual tax. Don't have the figures to hand there are always being touted........

Not a good sell for the Tories up here really... A badly constructed point badly made.

poppyknot Tue 09-Oct-12 15:26:18

Can't yet manage a simple italicisation me... blush

FrothyOM Tue 09-Oct-12 16:12:46

It's absolutley vile that people in low paid jobs are described as living off the state and a net drain.

It just illustrates the inequality within the system and the massive pay gap between rich and poor. Now that's vile.

amck5700 Tue 09-Oct-12 16:32:56

I still don't understand how they can say that but also quote - "According to the most recent figures, Scotland contributed 9.6 per cent of Britain’s tax take and accounted for 9.3 per cent of public spending." ??

That says the oppsote - that Scotland pays in more than it takes :/

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