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Economic Crash

(28 Posts)
YNK Tue 27-Sep-11 08:25:49

I hope this link works as I would like wise MNers views.

Is it time to panic and pull savings out of the banks?

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 27-Sep-11 08:54:06

Assuming you're in the UK, don't panic just yet. If your savings are modest your deposits are covered by the FSA compensation scheme. If you've got money riding on the stock market or in a pension, maybe you can sweat a little and think about cashing up or converting to more solid assets. The trader in the video is talking about hard-core stock-market gambling on the spikes and crashes... which has always gone on. Remember George Soros making a killing on sterling when Britain (briefly and disastrously) entered the ERM in the early nineties?

YNK Tue 27-Sep-11 08:54:27

Sorry - just saw there is another thread on this very link

YNK Tue 27-Sep-11 08:58:52

Thanks Cigito. I'm afraid I have more than £50k in one bank so I think I better move anything more than that pronto.... (that is the guaranteed amount, isn't it?).
Am I right?

YNK Tue 27-Sep-11 08:59:33

Cogito even (sorry)

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 27-Sep-11 09:33:54

The Compensation Scheme covers deposits to £85k amongst other things. Check that your financial organisation is in the scheme by looking at the FSA register.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 27-Sep-11 09:35:16

(Messed up the link) FSA Compensation Scheme Details

niceguy2 Tue 27-Sep-11 09:35:58

YNK, as someone who was caught up in the Icesave debacle I'd suggest you split your money down across at least two institutions.

Yes your savings are protected but if the shit hits the fan with one bank at least you have some money whilst you wait for the govt to sort it out and compensate you. The last thing you want is what happened to me where I woke up one morning, to pay the deposit on my house and find my cash had effectively disappeared. I got it back of course but it took months. And I went from having some savings to none in one single day.

Hey at least the guy was honest. Basically the guy is a vulture circling around waiting for someone to pick off. I suspect most of us will find that sort of attitude unpalatable but it's nature. The solution is to sort our economy out so its strong enough to keep the vultures at bay, not to simply stick our heads in the sand which is what the EU govts have been doing for too long.

telsa Tue 27-Sep-11 14:02:58

It is not nature at all - what a stupid thing to say. It is capitalism, a very specific type of economic system and one in very specific historical phase right now.

Anyway, the trader guy is vile and I think it is 'natural' to be repulsed by his attentuated sympathy for other humans.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 27-Sep-11 14:56:56

It may be vile but it is absolutely in human nature to take advantage of the misfortune of others. His attitude is not confined to the trading floor activities of hedge fund managers. It isn't even confined to capitalism. Exploitation is as old as time.

YNK Tue 27-Sep-11 15:05:20

Cogito and MrNG, thanks for the advice. I will get onto it straight away!

As for Mr P I think calling him a vulture is doing a disservice to vultures.
'Smug opportunist cunt' is more fitting. If you compare this sort of relish of others misfortunes to the actions of recent looters the latter look positively saintly!

telsa Tue 27-Sep-11 15:09:47

gosh- I must be really unnatural then - as I - and just about everyone I know - doesn't do the exploiting thing or take advantage of the misfortunes of others. Weird.....

farfallarocks Tue 27-Sep-11 15:11:10

Apparently this is hoax, but sadly I think he is saying what many think.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 27-Sep-11 15:17:48

You've never got a bargain in a 'closing down sale'? Never went to Woolworths in its final days, for example? In essence, that's what traders do. Like customers benefiting from a company going out of business & having to liquidate its stock fast to pay off the creditors. You could say those Woolworths bargain-hunters were vile examples of capitalism exploiting the misfortune of a company going bust, people losing their jobs... etc., etc.

wordfactory Tue 27-Sep-11 15:27:11

telsa absolutely everyone I know tried to knock down the price of their house when they were buying it.

If the sellers needed a quick sale, they took advantage of that.

jackstarb Tue 27-Sep-11 19:59:55

I've heard it's a hoax - but I agree he is expressing the reality of what a trader does.

To be honest sentimentality and emotion are actually quite dangerous in this context. Better the trader puts the interests of his clients first and behaves logically and rationally. That how capitalism works, after all.

Anyone hear R4's 'Capitalism on Trial' this morning? It was very good. It dealt with the morality of capitalism. Really worth a listen.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 28-Sep-11 06:34:40

I wouldn't have thought a system like capitalism could be either moral or immoral. Surely it's those doing the buying and selling that make that judgement call? I'd like to listen to the programme as, at the moment, I think the word 'capitalism' is getting confused with 'stock market trading' or 'investment banking', when really it applies to all aspects of commerce. Flog your old sofa on E-Bay for a few quid rather than give it to your impoverished neighbour and that's capitalism.

telsa Wed 28-Sep-11 08:46:23

Cogito - you need a lesson in basic economics. Capitalism involves capital, a particular type of money that is used for investment - that is making money out of money. It involves things such as surplus value (the discrepancy between wages and profits made from the outputs of production) etc etc. It is not flogging your sofa!

niceguy2 Wed 28-Sep-11 09:24:50

According to the BBC News this guy was not a hoax.

The guy obviously came across as a immoral, politically incorrect arsehole who doesn't give a shit about people. But in real life there are people who are kind, selfless and there are others who are pricks. I wouldn't be mates with him but I accept there will be people in the world like him.

Do we objurgate bailiff's?

I like Cogito's Woolworth's example. The best way to avoid vultures like this like I said earlier is to ensure you are strong enough to withstand them.

At the moment the Eurozone is up to its neck in debt. This guy is waiting for us to fall over and make money picking up the pieces. Firstly surely the logical thing to have done was not to get here in the first place. Secondly without a guy like that, who the hell would we be selling our stuff to to raise capital and repay debts?

Using the Woolies analogy, if we all refused to buy stuff at knockdown prices, Woolies would have retained a bigger debt but still would be just as bankrupt.

RattusRattus Wed 28-Sep-11 11:20:49

FWIW what's he's saying is a fair reflection IMO. Slightly extreme delivery given that he's on TV but nothing that isn't being said between peeps in the City anyway.

jackstarb Wed 28-Sep-11 12:32:36

Cognito - the program does cover the differentiation between 'private' morality and how capitalism assumes individual self interest leads to general good (eventually).

It came down slightly in favour of capitalism - I felt. But mainly because of the absence of any alternative. But there were plenty of Marxist opinions and quotes. It's on iplayer & it's a series.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 28-Sep-11 16:10:04

"Cogito - you need a lesson in basic economics"

Or maybe you do... Capitalism (noun) 1. An economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state

It's nothing to do with a 'particular type of money'... hmm

telsa Wed 28-Sep-11 19:14:11

Capital is the particular type of money not capitalism. Capitalism uses capital. Capital is a type of money.

if we are playing definitions: eg: Capital: Money available to build and grow a retail business. These liquid assets represent the amount of ownership and risk in a business. For new retail shops, it is the amount of cash required to launch and operate the business before borrowing from others.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 29-Sep-11 06:59:41

When you're in a hole telsa, stop digging. smile Capital may be used to start or grow a business but it's really not the same thing as 'capitalism'. In the same way that the definition of 'money' is not really the same as 'monetarism'.

TheBride Thu 29-Sep-11 07:15:48

Capitalism involves capital, a particular type of money that is used for investment - that is making money out of money.

Telsa Capital isn't a "type of money". It's just any old money used as investment in a business. 

i.e. a business's capital is the money invested in it by the owners or debt holders/lenders. eg. I own a business. I put £500k of my own money into it. The bank lends me another £500k. The total capital of my business is £1m. This "capital" is then invested in plant and equipment, stock and to fund working capital. It's not "making money out of money" but using money to make or buy things to sell at a profit. 

I have to say that I'm not sure where that retail definition came from but it's a particularly poor one. 

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