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Burglar stabbed by homeowner, other burglar arrested...homeowner arrested

(64 Posts)
Triggles Sun 18-Sep-11 22:38:02

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14963811

I don't understand this. The family/friends are laying flowers outside the house that he had broken in to and was killed. I get that they are family and friends and are upset, but seems a bit wrong to be putting the flowers outside the house of the burglary victim, does it not?

Triggles Sun 18-Sep-11 22:38:22

Whoops... here

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14963811

PonceyMcPonce Sun 18-Sep-11 22:45:04

Hmm it seems like very good way to stay safe in Manchester, is to avoid breaking into other people's homes.

Would also seem wise not to make a martyr of the victim.

wannaBe Sun 18-Sep-11 22:47:22

flowers? well...

live by the sword, die by the sword n all that.

georgie22 Sun 18-Sep-11 23:21:16

I did think the family of the burglar crying and laying flowers outside the house was odd - it's not like he'd been run over after all, he had broken into a house and threatened the homeowner. I'm not justifying him being killed but it's interesting that the other cases in Manchester ended with no prosecution as the CPS judged that the owners had acted in reasonable self defence.

Pixel Sun 18-Sep-11 23:30:33

If it was my husband that had been arrested for defending himself and our home from someone who'd broken in, i'd be chucking the flowers in the bin tbh. I wouldn't be letting the 'family and friends' make my husband out to be the guilty party.

Triggles Sun 18-Sep-11 23:39:48

That's basically what I thought as well. it seemed out of place, considering that he was killed while committing a crime at that location. Obviously, we don't know details, but the likelihood is pretty high that it would be deemed self-defence, considering the basic circumstances given thus far.

longfingernails Sun 18-Sep-11 23:41:47

Floral tributes for a scumbag burglar? This country has truly gone mad.

The law needs to be changed in favour of victims, and urgently.

The preferred outcome: a medal for the homeowner for his bravery, the dead burglar's family sued for the cost of the distress the homeowner incurred, and a very long prison sentence for the other burglar.

bkgirl Mon 19-Sep-11 01:12:36

It was the burglars own family friends outside the house - lets hope the other residents sweep them up PRONTO.

Frankly I hope they get their houses searched by the law and no doubt this isn't the first time he has been on a "job".

No, enough is enough - release Mr Cooke promptly and put a guard on his door. Or is protection only for the hoods?

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 19-Sep-11 06:55:55

Just shows how detached from ideas of civility and decent behaviour some people are. Making a shrine out of a crime scene when the 'victim' is actually the criminal.

The homeowner, like the case earlier this year in Pendlebury, will be investigated and, if this runs true to form, will not face any charges. The law is fine as it is.

NotADudeExactly Mon 19-Sep-11 07:08:35

I agree that flowers send the wrong message, perhaps.

This whole vigilantism thing, on the other hand: I would like to think that one person's right to life doesn't trump another's to his property. Yes, burglary is wrong. But so is stabbing people who are burgling you. You know that stabbing can be fatal and are therefore condoning the potential death of another person. If your material posessions are worth more to you than that you need better insurance and a new moral compass, whatever the Daily Fail thinks.

NotADudeExactly Mon 19-Sep-11 07:10:13

Sorry, should read that a person's right to his property doesn't trump another's to his life.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 19-Sep-11 07:15:38

I thought that David Cameron had said only a few weeks ago that if someone killsmsomeone while defending themselves during a break in they wouldn't be in trouble? I suppose the police have to get the facts first though. Hopefully he will be released.

PonceyMcPonce Mon 19-Sep-11 07:15:55

I think the fear engendered by someone breaking into your home, whilst your family return is what would prompt this self defence, rather than protecting iPods and cash which are doubtless insured. Creating this level of fear (two on one) is surely an occupational hazard?

Catslikehats Mon 19-Sep-11 07:24:54

It's not about putting property above life though is it?

If someone broke into my house I have no idea exactly what they want:

burglary
assualt
rape
torture

would all be reasonable assumptions to make and it is that which I would be defending myself and my family against.

If I am outnumbered I am not going to risk inflicting sufficient pain to really piss someone off but insufficient to incapacitate them. I might get one chance and I am not going to waste that batting someone over the head with a rolled up newspaper.

georgie22 Mon 19-Sep-11 07:32:09

Mr Cooke's wife and 12 year old son arrived home during the attempted burglary so I think he was concerned with their safety rather than his material possessions. You can't say how you would react in that situation but I'm sure I'd do anything to protect my family, and that is the case for most people.

DaisySteiner Mon 19-Sep-11 07:44:20

Well quite TQOD - how often does somebody incapacitate the villain in a scary movie and we're all shouting at the screen "kill him, don't just knock him out, he'll wake up again and get you" (or is that just me shock)

3littlefrogs Mon 19-Sep-11 07:44:23

NotADudeExactly - I doubt whether Mr cooke gave his possessions a second thought, but he probably feared for his wife and child.

How would he know whether the 2 burglars would be polite enough to leave quietly with a few gadgets, or assault his wife, threaten his child , or worse?

CustardCake Mon 19-Sep-11 08:05:19

NotADude – That’s utter rubbish. If someone broke into my house with a knife, I would not be thinking "oh crap, I must defend my digital camera and stop him pinching the laptop, let’s stab the bastard”

I would be thinking "oh crap, this guy has a knife, he is going to rape or kill me or hurt my children"

A burglar intent on no harm burgles an empty house and, if confronted with the homeowner, he runs away. A burglar who comes into an occupied home with a knife is a very dangerous person and is obviously prepared to go way beyond simply pinching a few things – he is showing he is prepared to use extreme violence by doing that. And if the flowers were left outside our house and it was my husband or neighbour who had been threatened by a knife whilst innocently standing in his own home, then I would go out and put them in the bin as well!

CustardCake Mon 19-Sep-11 08:09:10

Viva - any death must be investigated - that is the right thing to do and what the dead man's family deserve. But if it turns out that the facts are as straightforward as the reports so far (ie this man tried to break into an occupied house wielding a knife) then the homeowner will not be charged because stabbing someone who bursts into your home with a knife is totally and utterly justified and lawful.

qo Mon 19-Sep-11 08:13:01

If anybody broke into my home, to be perfectly honest burglary would be the last thing on my mind, I would assume that I or my children might be raped/murdered, and sheer fright would make me do whatever I could to defend us

Ripeberry Mon 19-Sep-11 08:14:56

I would stamp all over the flowers then put them in the bin!

JillySnooper Mon 19-Sep-11 08:19:26

If you make a choice to break into someone's home you abdicate responsibility for what happens to you in their home.

I am actually cheered by these brave homeowners , long may it continue.

I live in a remote farmhouse and I have a shotgun and licence. Trust me, you break into my house where my kids are sleeping and my DH is away, I will shoot you and I will kill you .

georgie22 Mon 19-Sep-11 08:22:10

What amazed me is that the police allowed the burglar's family to lay flowers at the scene - they're making him out to be an innocent victim. It just seems so inappropriate.

BupcakesandCunting Mon 19-Sep-11 08:32:53

I really disagree with you there, NOAD. Look at it through the eyes of the homeowner...

You're woken in your bed in the middle of the night and you know that someone is in your house. First reaction is more than likely to panic; you don't know what they're after. We've heard so many times of burglars not being happy with just robbing the gaffe, they want to pour boiling water over the people in the house/rape the wife or daughters or worse. Some burglars are proper nasty pieces of work and aren't merely chancers after your treasure.

If it were me, I imagine I would lash out with as much force as I could muster. Like an earlier poster said, you get one chance to inflict harm to the burglar. Make a bad job of it and they're likely to harm you more. So you make sure they're unconcious, if you can. If it's a choice between me and my family getting harmed, burglar is going down every time, I'm afraid. Being a burglar is a risky business. Getting harmed by an aggrieved homeowner is an occupational hazard.

FWIW, I have sufficient insurance but burglars do untold harm beyond the hassle of needing to ring round insurance companies trying to get your goods back (which YOU will end up forking out excess for anyway most of the time) Thankfully, I've never been burgled but I remeber my aunt and uncle being burgled and going to their house the following day. The house just didn't feel 'right'. My cousin had to go for counselling because she had disturbed the burglars and it shit her right up (as it would do at 7 years old) They're just awful, awful people.

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