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Wanted, BRITONS who want to work: Mail survey reveals why new jobs are going to migrant workers

(49 Posts)
pecanpie Thu 01-Sep-11 07:35:28

Official figures, released this week, showed that nine out of ten jobs created last year went to foreign nationals.

Iain Duncan Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary, has warned that Labour created a welfare system that made it pay not to work.

Among the native applicants there was little evidence of the long-term unemployed looking to take their first step back into paid employment ( it's obviously much easier to stay on benefits than to go out to work for the same money)

Full article

HoneyPablo Thu 01-Sep-11 07:39:06

It's not called a poverty trap for nothing.

coccyx Thu 01-Sep-11 07:41:20

9 out of 10 sounds high. No work ethic. too much of 'what am I entitled to'

OpinionatedMum Thu 01-Sep-11 07:44:06

Really?!

I know people who can't get a minimum wage job shelf stacking etc even though they have sent off hundreds of applications.

gapants Thu 01-Sep-11 07:45:50

DM- nuff said.

Did you watch the Fairy Godmother on the TV and how she would work out that if the person she was working with took this or that minimum wage job they would be £10/20 better off a week. Doesn't seem like alot, but the benefits of being in work are far greater than just money. Also if you are the 2/3rd generation in your family to be out of work, the benefits of working are not apparent, and the model of living on benefits has so far served you reasonably well in that it is all you have ever known and see. It is difficult to re-enter the job market or to do so for the 1st time. I think the welfare system has a part to play in that but there are many other factors. It is not as simple as ID Smith would like us to believe.

LargeGlassofRed Thu 01-Sep-11 07:53:23

Ooh just clicked on the link and saw my step brother, how funny.

I managed residential homes for 12 years, I don't think I was ever fully staffed. We advertised constanly.

woollyideas Thu 01-Sep-11 07:53:23

Perhaps if the minimum wage was increased people could be better off working.

niceguy2 Thu 01-Sep-11 10:21:32

There's no one simple explanation.

Benefits, low education, poor work ethics & higher expectations all play a role in why migrants are getting "all the jobs".

It's certainly true that for many people working simply doesn't make sense. Especially once you have children. If you have poor qualifications and all you can realistically get is minimum wage jobs then chances are you won't be much better off. So say you are £40 a week better off. Would you really work 40 hours a week for £40? Many people forget benefits are not simply income support. It's tax credits, council tax relief, housing benefit, free prescriptions/school dinners etc

For years we've allowed our children to leave school with too few qualifications in a world where our biggest competitors are doing the opposite. What can those kids look forward to? Not much. Basic jobs probably. Stacking shelves, retail staff. Now once upon a time those jobs would have been seen as a starter position and with hard work and time you'd get promoted.

But nowadays in the instant celebrity culture, time is for losers. Kids want to earn good money NOW. If that means marrying a footballer then great. Working 5 days a week for three years to get promoted from shelf stacker to team leader simply isn't on any of their agendas. Our society has taught them they deserve better. They want the company cars & expense accounts. But they left school with a GCSE in music.

I also lay a lot of blame on tax credits for the proliferation of part time jobs. Once upon a time employers would hire full time workers. But with tax credits this has meant many people could suddenly afford to work part time whilst getting a near full time income. Great for the individual. Bad for society. Why? Because employers can now hire two part time people, pay them less knowing tax credits will pick up the slack. Part time workers get less benefits which equals lower cost. And with so many people subsidised by part time workers, who's paying the taxes for tax credits!??!! The whole damn thing was unfunded and fuelled from borrowing in the first place!

The reason why migrants get the jobs is simply because by & large they arrive in the country and are not entitled to any benefits until they work. They've also grown up in a culture where working is the norm. There's no comprehensive state benefits system. You don't work, you starve. So they're used to taking work where they can. Even if it's work they don't really want to be doing in 10 years time. They'll do it now whilst looking for something else! They've also got a better work ethic and will work harder/longer for less money. As an employer, who would you choose?

Pan Thu 01-Sep-11 10:33:40

The Daily Mash do a good job on the DM for this item

SardineQueen Thu 01-Sep-11 10:34:47

9 out of 10 jobs created last year went to foreign nationals?

i don't believe it. Unless "created" means something counter-intuitive that hs skewed the figures

Pootles2010 Thu 01-Sep-11 10:36:22

It says jobs created this year - just at a guess, might that be because a lot of them are temporary contract type jobs?

SardineQueen Thu 01-Sep-11 10:39:42

The article also says it counts anyone born abroad as foreign - while in fact many people born abroad are british.

If you advertised the jobs in certain areas of large cities you would be certain to get more "foreign nationals" than anyone else - I wonder if they did something like that.

BadgersPaws Thu 01-Sep-11 10:40:25

"But they left school with a GCSE in music."

I wish that more people did GCSE's in music, I don't think that's the problem.

What is a problem with the education system is things like the so called "IT" lessons that are basically not just advertising for Microsoft and teach children how to use Office rather than how to write the replacement for Office.

Rather than being taught to think, understand and expand the children are being taught how to click the save button.

And that's just my experience of the bit of the education system with which I'm most familiar, I'm sure it's not unique.

"The reason why migrants get the jobs is simply because by & large they arrive in the country and are not entitled to any benefits until they work"

Migrants from the EU, who are the majority of the migrants into this country, can claim many (possibly all) benefits from the moment they arrive in this country.

So lack of instant access to benefits is not a reason behind this.

Most of the EU also has a comprehensive welfare system, so the lack of familiarity with that is not a reason either.

chibi Thu 01-Sep-11 10:49:13

has there been any comprehensive (or even scanty tbh) research into migration, foreign nationals, uk nationals and employment, that goes beyond just collation of statistics?

a lot of what people say on this topic seems a lot of hot air, and groundless, not to mention made up on the fly to act as scaffolding for existing prejudices

it is right that we should ensure that most of our population is gainfully employed

but

a lot of the kneejerky statements/ideas can't be helpful

Pan Thu 01-Sep-11 10:51:12

No - I don't believe it either. Minimum wage offer in city centres poss helps, but then so probably does choosing your job spots where foreign national people are most likelyto aplly - and hten extrapolate htis across the entire country.

What was most depressing was companies offering minimum wages for tiring, dmeanding work for 40 hors per week eg the kitchen porter in MAnchester, the restaurant staff in Bristol. THAT should be the scandal of the modern workplace. And please please non-one say "we can't afford more than minimum wage..." This country is loaded.

cornsilksi Thu 01-Sep-11 10:51:48

love that daily mash article grin

Pan Thu 01-Sep-11 10:52:58

morning silky! Hoping you are fine on this gorrrrgeous day!

Cheria Thu 01-Sep-11 10:53:56

The Daily Mail can not be trusted on anything to do with unemployment, benefits and foreign nationals.

cornsilksi Thu 01-Sep-11 10:54:00

I'm fine thankyou Pan. smile Are you skiving?

happybubblebrain Thu 01-Sep-11 10:54:18

I wouldn't trust any statisics created by the Daily Mail. Why are you taking it seriously?

Pan Thu 01-Sep-11 10:54:35

"Media analyst, Julian Cook, said: "The Daily Mail is the only newspaper with the resources, the skills and the courage to expose something as big and powerful as the Daily Mail."

Classic.

Pan Thu 01-Sep-11 10:58:05

Are you the Minister for Work and Pensions doing a bit of survey work of your own??!! It's called 'paid annual leave', of which I get a lot a bit. Trying unsuccessfully to drag dd away from her brand new laptop, into the fresh air and sunshine. My money is on her.

cornsilksi Thu 01-Sep-11 10:59:44

yes I have children attached to their laptops as well. Not that I'm setting a very good example myself....

Pan Thu 01-Sep-11 11:03:07

s'true.blush. Am going to offer an ice-cream-if-we-go-out-along-the-Trail sort of deal. Didn't ever think I'd be relying on bribery.......

Pan Thu 01-Sep-11 11:18:48

sorry - bit of an interuption in the "why we should cut people's unemployment benefit" drive.

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