Nadine Dorries gets what she wants - what can we do?

[pointythings]

Link: here

This is going to mean women being forced to delay having an abortion because they are only going to be able to get it from an independent (read 'deligious anti abortion) organisation.

And we thought that what was happening in the US couldn't happen here.

I can't remember the last time I was this furious. Women should of course have counselling when they have an abortion - if they want it. And they should be able to get it from whomever they bloody well want - they should not be forced to get it from an organisatino whose primary aim is to talk them out of it.

[pointythings]

aaaargh - meant to say 'religious'.

Take this as an indication of how I am.

[Tortington]

independant counselling - whats wrong with that ( i say innocently ..maybe naively?)

[fargate]

Only anti-choice groups will be able to provide counselling, Custardo

OP See @Abortion_Rights on Twitter there's lots of dissent and information on how to protest.

[Tortington]

is there a link to something where it says that specifically

[Empusa]

Wonderful

I can't stand that bloody woman

[Eurostar]

It says this at the end of the article

A Department of Health spokesperson said the department "wants women who are thinking about having an abortion to be able to have access to independent counselling. Work is under way currently to develop proposals around counselling on which the department intends to consult externally"

I guess someone needs to request to the DoH about who they will be consulting with externally?

[NLsupportsawomensrighttochoose]

Custardo - the principle behind this is that you can't provide counselling if you also provide the abortion. The counselling will be mandatory aka a barrier to the procedure. Who is going to provide this? Only organisations which oppose abortion. The Right to choose campaign has been fighting this type of 'counselling' for years. Nadine Dorries is a very dangerous threat to the rights of women in this country. It is absolutely terrifying how much influence she can have.

[theginganinja]

But they're not independent, are they. That's the problem, this organisation is only independent of the abortion service, they are not 'independent' because they have an agenda and that agenda is to prevent women from having abortions because 'it is against gods will'. Therein lies the problem Custardo.

[fargate]

'' The government has caved in to calls from anti-abortionists to overhaul existing protocols and strip charities of their responsibility to counsel women seeking to terminate a pregnancy.

The Department of Health confirmed that it would change the rules to ensure abortion counselling was offered "independently" of clinics that conduct terminations. Its announcement was made in advance of an attempt next week led by the Tory backbencher Nadine Dorries to amend the health and social care bill to force such a requirement.

Dorries says that the charity-run abortion services ? including the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS) and Marie Stopes ? have a financial conflict of interest in advising women seeking terminations. She says that by offering independent counselling, 60,000 of the 200,000 abortions each year could be prevented.''

The Guardian.

There is no definitition of what ''independent'' means other than self-regulated and no there are mandatory counselling qualifications required. Only anti-choice groups are in a position to deliver counselling on such a large scale and the dept of health knows this.

[Tortington]

right,

if someone is pro life - that is not independent counselling - this i understand.


what i dont understand is how the article says independent counselling - and everyone sees this as pro choice counselling.


i have missed a step here, i have no agenda, im not being contrary or difficult on purpose.

i just want to know some facts so i can make my own mind up


how is the article mentioning independent counselling equate to pro life

[Eurostar]

Certainly no way current primary care mental health services could provide this service, waiting times are far too long.

Very easy to covertly record these days so if these independent services that were set up, did not turn out to be independent, I guess all campaigners could present as if they were clients and expose the services by recording sessions?

[GypsyMoth]

She lives near me, Nadine is my local mp.
She always gets what she wants

[NLsupportsawomensrighttochoose]

Custardo - pro-life organisations have been offering counselling for years - when you actually get in to it the 'counselling' is not designed to enable somebody to work through their own views, it is designed to convince them that an abortion is wrong.

I also have a problem with 'counselling' being necessary at all. As a patient I should be given the facts about a procedure and I should give informed consent. I don't need to be assisted in making up my mind to have that procedure or not. If you respect the choice to terminate then you don't hedge it around with 'are you sure, no really are you sure?'

[WillieWaggledagger]

bloody nadine dorries

now I'm going to go to bed cross

[EvenLessNarkyPuffin]

Examples of 'counselling'

[Tortington]

oh i see

so, the govt are saying that all women should go to independant counselling

but

there is no such thing. no resources to be invested and no money available. no one monitoring theindependence of the 'independent' counselling etc

how long is this counselling meant to be - an hour - once a day for a week?

if there is no monitoring of this, and no resources - there must be ways round it - like a doctor from a different practice swapping witha collegue - or a nurse, or a receptionist go to another practice and just say to a group or=f women " are you sure?" righto then?

[timidviper]

I think I'm with Custardo here. Pro-choice groups are not independent in counselling terms but nor are abortion providers who profit from a decision to terminate.

I'm not sure how it could be done but think women deserve truly independent advice at what can be a traumatic time.

[fargate]

Exactly, custardo.

[NLsupportsawomensrighttochoose]

Care confidential are 'independant'. Have a look through the website and see how 'independant' you think they are?

[sfxmum]

This is part of a wider agenda
Am too tired to argue now but really, eroding of rights when they are most needed

[fargate]

It will be pro-choice 'independent counselling' by default

Which is exactly what is intended by ms norries et al.

[DoubleDegreeStudent]

I've read the Guardian article, and also a report on sky news. It says "The proposed change comes ahead of a Commons vote, expected next week, on amendments to a public health Bill put forward by Nadine Dorries, a backbench Conservative MP". So although likely to be passed, it has not yet been. I think.

I'm writing to my MP about it - it's easy to do on here. Suggest everyone does.

That woman is a total liability.

[Tortington]

i had a brief glance - i can tell by your tone of post that care confidential is a bad bible bashing sort

but i can;t find evidence of it on the site - brief glance