Teenager faces expulsion for sharing asthma inhaler

[GeorginaA]

Yahoo News

Okay, so this happened in the States, but I'm sure it's not far removed to what could happen here as many schools are introducing zero tolerance policies rather than using common sense to judge the situation. Being an asthmatic myself I am disgusted with the nurse who made a judgement that the girl was fine as I know how difficult it is to assess someone else's breathing difficulty when I personally have experience of it, let alone for those people who don't.

It seems to me this kid should be given a commendation for quick thinking not an expulsion and possible jail sentence... I'd be so grateful if someone had done that for my son.

[Tom]

Jeez - its ridiculous... but then so much of what happens in American schools is - have you seen the kids on Michael Moore's Bowling for Columnbine? One was excluded for wearing a kilt to a school prom. Kids were being reported for scowling at teachers - its all in the paranoia that things like Columnbine have created - if we think WE'RE a child-unfriendly country...

[robinw]

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[hmb]

This sort of thing is very worrying. In part it is born out of the litigation culture in the States (and more and more in the UK). The problem is that if you do something, trying to help and the child dies, you may well end up being sued and held responsible. Awful as it is, doing nothing can be 'safer' for the school.

I know of a doctor who was sued by a guy for breaking his rib. She had found him, dead, while she was out jogging. She did CPR on him until someone else ran by, who went and phoned for an amubulance (pre mobiles time). She stayed with him, and went into hospital with him until he was handed over to the Causualty doctors.

And the thanks she got for saving this guy, he sued her for breaking his rib. Her insurance company settled out of court (they knew that she would lose the case) and the next year her premiums for insurance shot up. It is a sick and crazy world.

[jodee]

That's awful, hmb. As a first-aider I was taught the main aim was to Preserve Life; if that meant breaking a rib whilst performing CPR that was better than the person dying from lack of oxygen to the heart ... BUT the legal implications can be enormous. That dr as a professional had a duty of care to that person, but I could walk away from the situation ... once you lay hands on a person to help that is a duty of care in the eyes of the law ... and I would have no hesitation in giving an asthmatic in distress someone else's inhaler.

[mieow]

I have given DD2's inhaler to my niece before. They are on the same medation, DD2 hardly uses hers as her asthma is very mild but my sis has phoned me up and ask me to bring DD2's inhaler to mums house when she has forgotten DNs.
Its mad!!!!!

[Angeliz]

i think the world is going mad!

[Jimjams]

Mum's a nurse and her union (RCN) tell their members NOT to help at scenes of accident etc because if they do something wrong they can be sued. Having said that she did help out when she saw a young girl knocked over, but I think she kept quiet about being a nurse.

Is there a dr in the house? Only if you sign this disclaimer first of all.

[robinw]

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[Podmog]

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[Jimjams]

really podmog? blimey.

a guy had a motorbike accident outside my neighbours front door. she helped him, called the ambulance- he was in a bad way. sge is a retired nurse so she did quite a bit. a month or so later he turned up at her front door wth a "what did you do with my bike?" eh??????? some people (btw she didn't do anything with his bike obviously- the police did)

[monkey]

my friend's dh is a doc & they were flying when a call came out for a doc on borad. He refused to annmounce himself, due to the fear of being sued. No win situation - the doc must feel pretty helpless & cowardly to sit by, but then the implications if they do help..)
This is also a constant worry for teachers. Being alone in a classroom with a kid is now a totally foolish act. Like others have said, it's a world gone mad

[suedonim]

A friend of ours is a neonatal doctor and she was called into a delivery room one day to a newborn in a very bad condition. (I think he had some sort of undetected in-utero infection in his leg that led to a rapid deterioration upon birth) The baby's father was a lawyer and he actually tried to slow down our friend's resusitation efforts because she was doing things 'too quickly' to for him to make 'proper notes'!!!!! He had apparently made notes throughout the labour, in case he wanted to sue the hospital later, which must have inspired everyone with confidence, but to put that before your child's life is truly astounding.

[lucy123]

hmb, that story is from the US, surely?

I was told during my last first aid training course that in the UK you generally cannot sue someone who was honestly trying to help in an emergency (as long as they weren't pretending to be a doctor or anything).

I think they should change the law to severley limit all personal injury cases, instead putting fines for medical malpractice into a general health-care fund for all.

[Oakmaiden]

lucy123 - I thought that was the case too - that as long as you had done the best that could be expected in the situation then no action could be taken against you. This was whilst training as a midwife. The hypothetical examples we discussed were:

You come across a man lying in a field having crashed his motorcycle into a tree. Nobody for miles around. If he is not breathing etc. you should remove his helmet and try resus. when someone objected that you might then cause paralysis through aggravating a neck injury we were told that since without your actions he would be dead anyway, this would be considered by the courts as an acceptable risk to take, and you would not be accused of wrongdoing.

The other one was the qualified doctor or nurse situation. There is a huge misconception I believe here (and lets bear in mind that the RCN are effectively an insurance provider and thus want to avoid a potential claim being made at all - far easier if nurses keep out of things) - the law states that a medically trained person cannot be expected to do more than they are trained for and have equipment to do - and that they should not be penalised for offering what assistance they can in an emergency and in the absence of a better trained/equipt person (ie a paramedic) - even if that assistance falls short of succeeding.

I think that I have remebered the main points correctly - it was a while ago! To be perfectly honest I can't help feeling that one has a social responsibility to help where you can.

[hmb]

No, it happened in the UK to a doctor who worked with doctor friend of ours. Sound crazy doesn't it? But it did happen. The case never came to court because the insurance company settled out of court.

[Lilysmum]

I've heard that exact story before (about a doctor being sued for breaking a rib during resus), I think its a 'modern legend' that does the rounds in medical schools, amongst nurses and other clinicians etc....

[JanZ]

My dad (retired doctor) helped someone with a heart problem when flying back from South Africa last week. Normally he doesn't volunteer when the "is there a doctor on board" request is made (as he worked in such a specialised field), but on this occasion no one seemed to be responding, so he went forward - as did a young man who had only just graduated. Dad says he'd have walked past if the "patient" had been American - but he was a German, travelling with a great wodge of medical notes (in German) - Dad says he should never have been flying.

After Dad said that they didn't need to divert to another aiport, they got a direct (and very hard!) landing in Amsterdam - straight in, with no stacking! That's one way to make sure you get your connection!

[hmb]

Lilysmum, it may sound like an urban myth, but my friend named the doctor that it happened to.

Anyone remeber the cancer patient who tried to sue the hospital because he lived? Thankfully that one got thrown out of court. He was a smoker with lung cancer. He was given treatment but told that the prognosis was very bad and that he was likly to die. He was very fortunate, and lived and tried to sue the hospital. Arsehole!

[JanZ]

Thought I should clarify that my Dad isn't anti-Amercian per se - but that he would have been worried about the potential for being sued (one of the themes of this thread). I'm not even sure if he's still insured, as it's now about 3 or 4 years since he did any locums.

At least it helped him "pay" KLM back - Mum and Dad had had to cancel the return leg of "no alterations" tickets because my granny (Dad's mum) was dying and then had to fight to get KLM to give them a "free" flight back (a South African travel agent friend helped them - apparently ALL tickets, even non refundable, non changeable tickets have a clause allowing change in the event of death of a close family member)

[waterbaby]

Even if these crazy allegations don't win in court, they can cause a lot of pain even in the initial stages of a claim. I was one of a team asked to respond to an emergency involving a little girl. She had actually died (accidental death) a long time before the 999 call was made, but the parents (who were obviously beside themselves with grief and as one parent to another I really feel for them and continue to do so) fought to bring charges against the emergency services for not saving their daughter. They doidn't succeed (there was no case to answer) but the investigations, testamonials etc lasted about six months, and were very difficult for everybody involved.

[robinw]

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