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Cardiff Protest Against Wind Farms and Pylons

(22 Posts)
ohanotherone Mon 23-May-11 13:24:50

Calling all Welsh worried about windfarms and the massive effect that TAN 8 will have on Wales for bugger all energy generated. The people of midwales are protesting at Cardiff Senedd tomorrow, please offer your support to the 4 marchers walking to the Senedd arriving tomorrow. Thanks!!!!!!/photo.php?fbid=132586450150675&set=a.122858601123460.24828.120796954662958&type=1&theater

ohanotherone Mon 23-May-11 17:22:02

It's all you guys who will be paying the bills for years to come....

octopusinabox Mon 23-May-11 19:13:39

It's not about money .. the next generation will be paying in terms of global warming.

If you're in South Wales I'd be more concerned about the fracking that's about to start up there than a few wind farms.

PigletJohn Mon 23-May-11 19:40:27

I don't know, is it "better" to have some giant windmills near you, or some giant chimneys near someone else?

Oh, I get it, it's the "near you" bit, isn't it?

octopusinabox Mon 23-May-11 20:31:41

Your arguments are also spurious .. for example ..

Wind farms are inefficient:
The facts:
* A single 1.8-megawatt turbine can produce enough power for 1,000 homes – and save over 4,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions annually.
* The average wind-farm will pay back the energy used in its manufacture within three to five months – more quickly than coal or nuclear plants (British Wind Energy Association).

Wind farms are expensive :
The facts:
* The cost of generating electricity from wind has fallen dramatically over the past few years. Between 1990 and 2002, world wind energy capacity doubled every three years and with every doubling prices fell by 15%
* The average cost of generating electricity from onshore wind is now around 3-4p per kilowatt
hour, competitive with new coal (2.5-4.5p) and cheaper than new nuclear (4-7p)
* As gas prices increase and wind power costs fall, wind becomes even more competitive, so much so that some time after 2010 wind should challenge gas as the lowest cost power source.
* Furthermore, the wind is a free and widely available fuel source, therefore once the wind farm is in place, there are no fuel or waste related costs.

Wind farms will destroy our local community:
Your link states '67% of visitors to Wales disagree turbines are an attraction

Where does this figure come from? How many people were questioned? Even if they disagree that the turbines themselves are an attraction (why would they be?) this doesn't preclude the opinion that they are necessary and don't detract from the attraction they came to see. Was this question asked? What was the answer?

The facts:
* A survey conducted by Mori (November 2005) showed 72% of people supported wind farms, and was the favoured choice of Britons to fill the energy gap in the future.
* A more recent survey commissioned by the DTI (May 2006) found that 81% are in favour of wind power and 62% would be happy to live within 5km (3 miles) of a wind farm.
* Whether you think a wind turbine is attractive or not will always be your personal opinion. Studies regularly show that most people find turbines an interesting feature of the landscape.

'The facts' taken from

octopusinabox Mon 23-May-11 20:38:40

Oops, sorry that should have been 'economy' not 'community'

ohanotherone Mon 23-May-11 20:39:09

The near me is very concerning.....if you had a power station the size of greater london with all the associated 150ft pylons and 22 acre hubs and 300 miles of cancer causing high voltage lines coming to the area near you it would concern you too.

Octopus.....800 olympic sized swimming pools of concrete dug out of peat bogs pretty much negates the impact that the turbines will have on global warming. The precious metal extraction for use in the turbines from china causes pollution there. They are not green, just seem to be green. Being green is a passion for many of us in mid wales, but we all want microgeneration and insulation and truly green answer to our energy problems. Not one conventional power station will be closed as wind is so unreliable.

James Dellingpole says it better

Excuse my total ignorance but What is fracking???? Sounds like dogging????

octopusinabox Mon 23-May-11 20:45:01

It's shale drilling which is happening on the south coast (or at least will be very soon).

ohanotherone Mon 23-May-11 21:02:01

The research about people liking windfarms is based on the small windfarms with smaller turbines than those proposed now. We already have those visible and most people are happy about them. What is proposed is cutting down acres of forests and trees, 800 turbines the size of The Gerkin in London all connected by massive Pylons which will stretch from Shrewsbury to mid wales covering 90% of Montgomeryshire. So if you travel from Shrewsbury in England to Aberyswyth on the coast in a straight line, there will be Turbines or Pylons all the way. It's a massive proposal. Over 6000 jobs depend on tourism in this area and it would be madness for any government to use the small scale studies as a basis for assuming that tourists would still want to visit mid wales once these things are up, besides that, they are going up in other areas aswell, once the BWEA has their way, most of Scotland and Somerset will be destroyed to.

You pay through ROC's and increased bills, the link you sent is incorrect, wind is more costly than nuclear or coal or gas.

PigletJohn Mon 23-May-11 21:15:19

so how do you square that with "covering 90% of Montgomeryshire" That would take billions of pylons or fans.

Not "a 50 mile grid line"

I suppose you live in a self-contained commune with no electricity or gas or telephone, is that right? No factory-made products like cars? No roads? No mains water or drainage? Therefore you have no need of the pylons and power stations that the rest of us depend on.

Have you also protested about power stations and pylons not in your own backyard?

octopusinabox Mon 23-May-11 23:04:32

"You pay through ROC's and increased bills, the link you sent is incorrect, wind is more costly than nuclear or coal or gas"

To be honest I don't really care if it is more expensive or not. The fact is that coal and gas are going to get more expensive as they run out. I live near a wind farm and am quite happy with that - far happier than I'd be living next to a nuclear power plant or a fracking area.

I agree with you that we need to all cut down on our energy use but at the end of the day we're still going to need electricity and I'd rather not just sit around waiting for the fossil fuels to run out.

We have people round near us who've been campaigning against the wind farms and their main issue seems to be the loss of the countryside and the loss of the view fgs. There are far more important things going on than the view from their bloody windows.

Ryoko Tue 24-May-11 00:17:47

Anyone who doesn't want wind farms, wave power, solar panels and turbines etc near them should be kicked off the national grid, as they obviously would rather look at miles and miles of farmers fields lined with fences and hedgerows then have lighting, heating etc.

Let the moaners be the first to experience what it's like to live in the dark ages, after all thats how we will all live if they keep getting in the way of progress, fossil fuels are running out and making this planet a mess.

Partners parents live in Cornwall, I think the massive wind farm they have there is the most interesting thing on an otherwise barren and highly cultivated landscape that consists of nothing but rough squares of various shades of green/yellow and a few sheep.

We really need more water wheels tho I don't understand why we don't have them, this country was a hive of industry in the past precisely because of the large amount of rivers we have, both above and below ground that powered factories with water wheels.

PigletJohn Tue 24-May-11 00:47:40

NYMBYism wrapped up in unconvincing rationalisations

wikolite Tue 24-May-11 10:37:24

Seeing as though you object to windfarms being built in your area, would you be happy for a nuclear power station to be built there instead?

ohanotherone Tue 24-May-11 14:18:56

Trawsfynedd is only 20 miles away so yes I am happy about a Nuclear Power Station being near me. 15 Miles away a whole village was buried underwater for the people of Liverpool to have clean water so it's not like anybody in this area has never contributed to the national resources network.

It's not just one grid line, it's also a network of Mega Pylons connecting 17 wind farms planned for mid wales.

Quite a few people do live quite happily off grid locally. Even the most ardent eco warriors disagree with these plans as collectively they will cause massive environmental damage. Wales already has met the targets for renewable energy. So this is all about mid wales sending electricity into the National Grid for people in cities to waste.

Shropshire's MP is particularly concerned about the impact of flooding on Shrewsbury and Atcham. The environmental impact assessments are flawed and biased and have not been done properly. It's incredibly bad government policy fed by greedy wind power companies.

Many people are waking up of their Unfortunately the BBC is very biased towards windpower so no one gets a truly balanced view. These people have never stood on a field as the water table rises, literally bubbling up through the earth and experienced floods of over 6ft high. So I'm happy to be a Nimby as I do know what impact the scale of this policy will have locally and nationally.

frostyfingers Tue 24-May-11 17:06:00

What gets forgotten in the wind farm debate is the damage done during the construction..... There is one being planned for near us and it involves turning an ancient (and I mean really ancient) farm lane into a single track road with passing places to enable the construction of 4 whopping great turbines. It will go through the farm yards of two listed building, and totally obliterate ancient hill land. A road which goes down a steep wooded hill has had loads of trees felled in order to allow the lorries to pass under them.

Not forgetting the amount of concrete that is needed - manufacture of concrete is incredibly bad for the environment - and the fact that these particular ones are only planned to be in place for 24 years after which they will be decomissioned and just left there. That is why I am against these ones - if they are going to do all this damage then they should look at the best way of a)minimalising it, and b)a longer time in service. Oh, and all this winter when it was so cold, there was barely enough movement in the air to puff a feather......

And as a bit of icing, they are hoping to get past the parish council by offering a bribe, sorry grant, of £24,000 to them for community projects - generous to a fault eh!

In principle I agree that we need to look at how we source our energy, but riding roughshod over people's livelihoods and concerns is not a way to endear yourselves to the natives. Prove to me that they are really beneficial, less damaging to the environment and I will think again.

ohanotherone Tue 24-May-11 20:26:06

This is the issue, once up the windmills supposedly produce "clean energy". The environmental costs of the concrete pads and road building to get the vast structures on site not calculated or hugely underplayed by the developers. Whole sections of road through some towns and villages will need to be ripped up and relaid to allow the juggernauts through. It's only when the damage is done that people see the true costs.

The subsidies are hidden in ROC's and therefore are not transparent. These huge wind farms do not benefit the local economy at all. The bribes do not cover the true cost. They even get money when they don't work....

Abra1d Tue 24-May-11 20:30:01

Wind farms are a rip-off, benefiting only the landowner, who receives large subsidies. The farms are ruining the landscape for little benefit to the tax payer or consumer. I'm glad that this is being acknowledged at last.

Good luck, Cardiff!

Abra1d Tue 24-May-11 20:31:50

We have a wind farm down the road from us. It is a blight and the turbines hardly ever seem all to be working. As far as I can tell it powers a hamlet of about seven people and two dogs. Lots of ££££ for the farmer, though.

ohanotherone Tue 24-May-11 20:52:39

Iolo says it in Welsh.....

ITV and BBC both covered the protests. ITV's lunchtime coverage is here

ohanotherone Tue 24-May-11 20:54:21

Sorry Iolo's here..

fairydoll Fri 27-May-11 17:35:21

the next generation will be paying in terms of global warming

oh come on you surely don't still believe that load of bollox do you???

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