So - is she a marttyr? Or a wilful geriatric anarchist?

[Caligula]

pensioner gets sent to prison for not paying council tax

[Caligula]

Martyr even!!!

[QueenOfQuotes]

good on here I say, council tax increases have been way more than the increase in pensions.

this one was local to us so saw loads of it in the news too - but the local council have announced they won't be doing anymore to get their money back - as they feel they've done everything they can LOL.

[slug]

Hmmm, my problem with this is that Council tax is spent disproportianally on services for the elderly and the young. Now while I agree that the raise in pensions should be at least equal to the rise in council tax, it should also be remembered that she will probably get a lot more out of the council in services that she pays in via her council tax.

[QueenOfQuotes]

you've obviously got a nice council then, as the services for the elderly are cr*p round here.

[Caligula]

I have every sympathy for them, but what p*ses me off about the whole debate, is that it focuses only on pensioners. Lots of people in this country can't afford to pay the council tax. It is unrelated to income and it is a substantial sum of money.

My uncle, a pensioner, has an income of some £25K per annum. He has no mortgage (paid off years ago) and no dependents. The general viewpoint at the moment appears to be that he should get a discount on his council tax.

Well lots of people are earning £9K, £12K, £15K, £20K per annum and have dependents and rent or mortgages to pay. But no-one is calling for discounts for them. Why is no-one talking about the basic issue with the council tax for everyone, not just pensioners - the fact that unless you claim income support, it is wholly unrelated to ability to pay?

[nutcracker]

I think how much council tax you pay should be based on your earnings personally and then obviously a pensioner wouldn't have to pay the same rate as a working couple for example.

[nutcracker]

I agree with Caligula who explained it a whole lot better than me.

[SenoraPostrophe]

Caligula is right as usual.

I would also like to add that one of the reasons council tax is going up so fast is so that they can pay the pensions of retired council workers and policemen - it ain't cheap.

[jac34]

I must agree with the article about the jail sentence though, when people who do much worse get community service orders.

[Tortington]

will the money be "spent" as time in jail ? i am under the impression that she will still have to pay the £53 + court costs of course when she is released.

is this the case?

and if she refuses again to pay? is there a maximum sentance?

[expatinscotland]

K, so sparklymiaow's thug a*& 'neighbours' were allowed to roam the streets and engage in criminal behaviour whilst out on bloody REMAND for nearly killing someone and beating someone else, yet this lady goes to gaol for bloody £53?!

And then officials have the nerve to grouse about crime?

[ark]

How much does it cost to put her in jail for 7 days? Surely more than the money she is refusing to pay!

On the point of council tax being predominantly for the youngest and eldest - so she should pay it as she will get the most use. That doesn't make sense to me, she I presume will have paid taxes all her life?....... The implication is also that younger people without children, would have little obligation to contribute to the pot coz they use less services - it just doesn't work like that. We pay for the older people as they paid for us when we were children , and as the next generation will pay for us etc.

[slug]

It's all part of an argument that the elderly, especially those who were born at the introduction of the welfare state, have benefitted more from taxes than those who have come after them. In the 50's and 60's they paid less towards the welfare state through their taxes, proportionally, than those who paid tax in later years, but have reaped more in terms of services, NHS, Social Services etc purely by having lived longer, than those of us who are paying taxes now. An example is the whole NHS dentist debacle. 30 years ago it was easier to get on a list and have work done than those of us who live in areas nowdays that have NO NHS dentist cover at all.

However, it's an academic debate, and one that has been thrashed out in other countries with ageing populations over the past few years. In essence I'm in agreement with Caligula.

[monkeytrousers]

Also in agreement (surprise surprise)

Just to go off on a tangent, it's a bit like the WTC and CTC debate too, isn't it?

I was up in arms (IYSWIM) a coupl eof weeks ago when told that we don't qualify for CTC to help pay towards childcare when I'm at uni. DP is self employed and comes in after tax with around 10 -12k pa with a company car. I was absolutely furious until I thought about it and realised I was just expecting more. I mean, why should I expect anything?? The benefits are there to raise families out of poverty and we're already there, if only just.

[starlover]

i have no sympathy for her. why do people think that they can just refuse to pay council tax.... if one person gets away with it then EVERYONE will do ti

it may be an unfair amount... but they have given her the chance to pay it bit by bit and she knew what would happen if she didnt

she wants to be a martyr... but she isn't

[monkeytrousers]

Erm...don't you have to be dead to be a martyr? Hope they took away her wool and knitting needles.

[Hulababy]

And this woman can afford to pay the council tax - according to this evening's news anyway.

We can't have one rule for one and another for the rest. How else do we "punish" (for want of a better word) someone who refuses to pay their tax bill?

And would people feel quite so much sympathy is she wasn't a 70 odd year old lady, but a 23 year old young man? I doubt then it'd even have made the news.

[madmarchhare]

Silly old bat IMO.

[Caligula]

It's a difficult one, because I think prison is an absurd punishment for a crime like this. It really ought to be reserved for people who are a danger to the public.

But I also agree that just because she's 70, it doesn't give her the right to break the law with impunity.

I'd like not to have to pay my council tax too. I'm always outraged that I pay the same monthly rate as my neighbour up the road who earns literally 4 times more than me, and does not have 2 children.

Community service?

[Hulababy]

Possibly community service - but then that still takes a lot of "policing", supervision, time and money.

Prison may not be ideal, but it is probably being used - as only for a very short time - as a short, sharp shock treatment.

[SenoraPostrophe]

all very good reasons to have a local income tax IMO (as pensions are taxable too).

They must spend a lot of money on chasing up council tax non-payers.

[harpsichordcarrier]

I don't know whether to laught or cry at the statements made by her supporters that she is the modern day equivalent of Emmeline Pankhurst or the Tolpuddle Martyrs! I mean, hardly an equivalent injustice and very far from being an equivalent punishment.

[monkeytrousers]

Hula, how much of a short sharp shock can you take at 70+??

[expatinscotland]

Her stay in gaol is costing taxpayers £700+.

[starlover]

but what else can they do? just say "oh well never mind eh"

if you don't pay your council tax you go to jail... end of story