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130000 students at least saying no to this rotten government

(66 Posts)
telsa Thu 25-Nov-10 11:36:22

Isn't that amazing. Why no posts on it? Here's a great analysis from someone in the kettle.
leninology.blogspot.com/2010/11/spontaneous-massiv e-and-militant.html

ToxicKitten Thu 25-Nov-10 13:47:32

Looks like an excellent precis of the London demo. I was watching it with my Dad, and we both worked out straight away that the police van was the equivalent of the MacDonalds toy ie a focus for any vandalism that would underline the idea that all the protesters were just there to cause trouble.

It is quite telling that there were students trying to stop the vandalism, perfectly aware that those who participated were playing into the authorities hands.

I didn't understand the prolonged "kettling" operation, given the fact that some of the students were 16 and under, and that the numbers seemed relatively small.

I understand that in our town, Bournemouth, many students were prevented from getting close to the demo site, and I haven't heard any stories of vandalism, rioting, etc.

I have to say that while I don't condone violence, I do believe in a right to protest, preferably peaceful, when democratic process fails and people feel themselves to be voiceless.

I think that some people will be quite disappointed that the whole affair didn't degenerate further and give the government further ammunition to create yet more rules to govern public order.

granted Thu 25-Nov-10 16:46:01

Fabulous that it was 130,000. Peaceful protest is the ay to go.

I hope that next time, the students can learn something from the hippies and surround any such decoy vans with a little ring of flowers, maybe decorate it tastefully with some nice bouquets.

Make the powers-that-be know that the kids have got wise to that tactic.

Non-vioent protest has worked in so many countries - learn from Gandhi, from Nelson Mandela.

Good luck, kids.

2shoes Thu 25-Nov-10 16:48:04

130000 students not in class learning.....

telsa Thu 25-Nov-10 17:08:36

No, learning important lessons elsewhere. The level of discussion was very high - and they learnt something about the British state too.

granted Thu 25-Nov-10 17:37:56

Well, frankly 2shoes, if most of them aren't going to be able to afford to go to university anyway, the loss of one dat's education is not of great import in the grand scheme of things. Surely better to protest for one day, with the hope of being able to get 3 years more education as a result.

sarah293 Thu 25-Nov-10 17:48:18

Message withdrawn

huddspur Thu 25-Nov-10 17:51:46

Although I don't agree with the policy, direct action like these student protests rarely have any impact on Government policy.

sarah293 Thu 25-Nov-10 17:54:10

Message withdrawn

granted Thu 25-Nov-10 18:12:08

huddspur, can you remind me of the last time we had 130,000 people out on the streets over govt policy? Let alone repeatedly.

Doesn't happen very often.

As Riven says - think polltax.

Unprune Thu 25-Nov-10 18:15:45

The poll tax, though, wasn't fully or even that widely supported by tory MPs and ministers. That's why it went. The demos were empowering at the time but ultimately not as pivotal as all that (ever thus in politics).

huddspur Thu 25-Nov-10 18:16:05

granted- wasn't there 750,000 protestors on the protest against the Iraq war.

grannieonabike Thu 25-Nov-10 18:48:05

I'm glad they went. Really important that they register their views. Huge lesson in taking responsibility and doing something to change things. And so glad no-one was hurt.

NetworkGuy Thu 25-Nov-10 19:28:55

"and doing something to change things."

either that, or a lesson in futility.

I didn't watch a minute of it on TV, but found the comments of one student / organiser on Five Live (apparently unable to condemn violence, or the possibility of it happening) quite poor.

Yes, have strong views, yes, protest if you must, but no, don't think that violence will achieve anything to help a cause.

I was never in favour of suggesting 50% should go to university (not to maintain some elitism, but because it devalues the degrees held to being much of a muchness, especially if some of the degrees are not in academically stretching subjects).

Oh, and no, I didn't go to University, but studied for a professional qualification comparable to a degree (at least to employers). When I went for my first job, aptitude was how they judged, and (apart from another candidate with BSc and MSc in Maths, who ws wanted as liaison for the Maths department) was given the job in preference to 9 degree holders (because of their lack of exposure to IT, compared with me, age 19 and 1 month).

johnhemming Thu 25-Nov-10 21:25:54

www.birminghammail.net/news/birmingham-news/2010/1 1/24/forty-students-in-tuition-fees-protest-at-uni versity-of-birmingham-97319-27707298/

At one of the 18 sites there were according to the Birmingham Mail 40 students.

That would imply on average under 1,000 outside the London event. It strikes me as unlikely that the total was 130,000.

However, facts don't seem to play much of a role in this particular demonstration.

gingercat12 Thu 25-Nov-10 21:28:43

Although our students skipped classes, but after the 1-2 hour demo they had a so-called theach-in. They had lectures and discussions on subjects like the student movements in 1968, women and cuts, etc.

granted Thu 25-Nov-10 21:30:36

Huddspur - no idea re numbers and Iraq war protests I'm afraid. But I think there was v little political opposition at the time for those protestors to tap into - all parties were pretty unified and only a few 'eccentrics/radicals' like Claire Short disagreed.

Student fees are different - I think most Lib Dem and Labour MPs are v dubious.

Likelihood of backbench rebellion (esp by Lib Dems scared of losing their seats) is much greater.

And if my memory serves me correctly, the public opposition to the poll tax was much, much greater than the opposition to the Iraq war ever was - I remember loads and loads of ordinary midle-class people deciding on civil disobedience ie not paying - protest wasn't limited to marches, don't forget!

granted Thu 25-Nov-10 21:33:05

johnhemming - you could do with going to university (or is that back to university) if you believe you can extrapolate from the report of a single venue in a single city to all venues in that one city let alone the whole country!

lol - lies, damned lies and statistics...

grannieonabike Thu 25-Nov-10 22:49:21

Johnhemming - does it matter exactly how many were there?

What this government has done, highly successfully, is politicise and raise the awareness of youngsters. What the police with their kettling have done is shake the confidence that young people might have had in them. And worse, a lot of them will be feeling very hostile towards them, I expect.

France 1968?

kate1956 Thu 25-Nov-10 23:13:10

john hemming you're talking rubbish - at my kids high school alone more than 300 walked out and joined with other school students for a march into the city centre where they joined with university and college students - that's in leeds and it was reported as 3000 - in fact all of us could see it was many many more, and however politicians like you try to twist the truth all over the country people were seeing the same - and supporting it!

If you think this is going to go away you are sadly mistaken!

Kaloki Fri 26-Nov-10 00:27:56

It's a serious shame it turned violent, but I'm glad the students have bothered to try and make their voices heard. Though sad that out of all of the cuts etc it is only the rise in student fees that has gathered this much protest.

Ryoko Fri 26-Nov-10 12:40:38

They need to grow up, watching the police beating them over the head was a landmark moment for me, the only time I can remember actually rooting for the rozzers.

Spotted a funny placard held by one of them "Fuck fees, free education for all" if the irony of such a placard is not apparent to the owner of it, then that is proof that all you need to get into higher education is to look like a ponce, have an over inflated opinion of your own self worth and an ill judged sense of entitlement.

WhoKnew2010 Fri 26-Nov-10 12:47:07

Please Please watch [[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEkk2eUCY1Y&feature =youtu.be this]] It is utterly joyous.

and if you're interested
see here

Mumsnet is out, the youth are in ... go students.

WhoKnew2010 Fri 26-Nov-10 12:48:41

ugh - why can't I do links - but do have a look. Students rock.

Ryoko Fri 26-Nov-10 12:51:24

there is a space between the first brackets and the http thats probably why.

Stuff the students let them pay for the education that will increase their earning potential, whats so crazy in expecting people to finance things that will benefit only themselves?.

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