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Scotland's anti-English tax

(32 Posts)
dreamingofsun Mon 01-Nov-10 09:52:57

In today's Daily Mail (yes i know you all love and believe every word of this paper!) it says that the Scottish Government is drawing up plans to charge students from England 9k a year while those that live in Scotland or anyone coming from europe pay nothing. is this not racist? Is this not against the free movement of people (which I thought the EU objected to?) Could this not be challenged in court?

CrappedMyselfAtFrightOClock Mon 01-Nov-10 10:05:41

what about Welsh and Northern Irish students (just out of curiosity?) or do they come under 'coming from Europe'. Actually, technically England is in Europe...

dreamingofsun Mon 01-Nov-10 10:08:10

good question - article didn't mention them.

HabbiBOOOO Mon 01-Nov-10 10:10:05

Scotland subsidises Scottish students to go to its own universities, which is reasonable, surely? I'm not sure how the non-UK EU students thing works, but the other UK students are affected by their own HE funding policies, iyswim.

saorachd Mon 01-Nov-10 10:12:16

I thought that all students, regardless of where they originated from, were going to be charged.

The Daily Mail love to stir up racial hatred.

HabbiBOOOO Mon 01-Nov-10 10:12:53

Scottish and EU students are also subject to the Graduate endowment when they graduate, which other home nations are exempt from. Did the mail mention that?

RunnerHasbeen Mon 01-Nov-10 10:13:22

The Scottish fees are paid by the local awards agency, if the English equivalent paid them the students would not be charged. Scottish students going to England pay the same fees as English students (not free) so the reciprocal deal with other EU countries doesn't apply either.

Would it be fairer for the Scottish universities to be filled with English students paying nothing whilst paid for from Scottish budget? Especially as these students are less likely to stay in the country afterwards. Therefore the government trying to invest in further education isn't getting any benefit.

Should England pay for Scottish students South of the border because the Scottish government pays for English students? That would surely be less fair.

It doesn't seem fair but there is no fairer way to compromise the two completely different systems. If England has decided to adopt the American system, it will be treated similarly to American students. Instead of being outraged at how other counties adapt to the new system in England, look at the system itself or come up with a better solution.

HabbiBOOOO Mon 01-Nov-10 10:14:05

Not sure it's been decided yet, saorachd; don't know when the next Scottish Govt spending review is.

HabbiBOOOO Mon 01-Nov-10 10:15:35

Just read the article. Typical shit-stirring and misinformation. ffs.

Eleison Mon 01-Nov-10 10:25:19

If Scotland's excellent universities were kept free to English students when English ones charged, the UK would tip up and sink north-end forst from the northwards rush of English yoof.

They would have to get the cost of teaching the English from somewhere, and the UK govt will no longer stump up.

HabbiBOOOO Mon 01-Nov-10 10:27:28

I like the DM's confusion - oh, the Nationalists, so terrible, so much money - the SNP want to be totally independent and have their own tax raising powers - same hymn sheet?

saorachd Mon 01-Nov-10 10:29:00

Habbibooo- There appears to be no mention of this in either the Herald or Scotsman and I rather think they would be better informed than the Mail.

dreamingofsun Mon 01-Nov-10 10:29:43

runner - does scotland have a reiprocal deal with other EU countries whereby all tuition fees are free?

Habbi - if you say this is misinformation can you tell us what the correct facts are please?

dreamingofsun Mon 01-Nov-10 10:31:25

my question is not to stir up racial hatred but was based on more practical things - having 3 children who are about to go through uni. they are all mixed race as my HB is foreign

poppyknot Mon 01-Nov-10 10:35:56

It was in the Sunday Times yesterday - I think it is partly on the basis that Scottish students would have to pay fees at English universities. Also the Scottish goverment is concerned about the funding gap between Scottish and Englsih universities if the fees in England do rise.

There was a quote from someone in the Scottish government saying that they didn't necessarily want to pay for EU students but they had to.

There was even a letter to Chris Woodhead on the Education page from the headmaster at Harrow asking if Edinburgh was going to block students from public schools in England (or rather favour students from Scotland and the north of ENgland) as had been proposed. I think this policy has now been abandoned.

The fact that Scotland and England have different funding will mean there is a mismatch but daily Mail headlines (nor the Sunday Times' do not help. Both systems are being looked at in the current financial circumstances - I am sure that Scotland will have its own equivalent of the Brown report (evenm if had less publicity.....)

AMumInScotland Mon 01-Nov-10 10:38:52

Scottish Universities charge fees - but Scottish students have them paid by the Student Awards Agency for Scotland. EU students have them paid under a reciprocal agreement.

English students do not have them paid, as student funding in England is done on the basis of a student loan to help with paying fees, rather than a grant.

English students also have to pay fees at English universities.

The difference isn't to do with charging university fees - all universities do that. The difference is that the Scottish government choose to issue grants to cover fees, instead of loans.

CommanderGhoul Mon 01-Nov-10 10:46:25

So move to Scotland. It's great jf you can find a job ( there aren't any)

I see Scotland is now being blamed for ghe country's fiscal woes along with 'benefit scroungers' 'the middle classes' 'Yummy mummies' and 'working mothers.'

Hmmm no mention of sharp practice by the City. It's obviously Not Their Fault.

BadgersPaws Mon 01-Nov-10 10:50:23

It's worth bearing in mind that the SNP is pursuing independence via two main approaches.

The first is to get the Scots to want to be independent.

The second is to get the English to want the Scots to be independent.

Couple in that second plan with the DM's usual xenophobia and London-centric view of the world then you get quite a potent headline generator...

HabbiBOOOO Mon 01-Nov-10 10:52:00

The misinformation is that this is some kind of new and deliberately discriminating policy - Scotland has always subsidised its own students in its own universities, and those students repay through the graduate endowment, which I don't think the article mentioned. Scottish universities do have some responsibilty to accept students from their own locale, I think, as part of their funding agreement, which again, is fair enough - most English unis will have something similar under widening participation.

dreaming, it's not you stirring, but the DM's usual spin which is irritating.

HabbiBOOOO Mon 01-Nov-10 10:52:54

Ooh - a conspiracy with the DM? What happens if new gas/oil reserves are found, though? Will the DM go all tartan?

dreamingofsun Mon 01-Nov-10 10:54:54

doesn't sound as if there's much of a case for racial descrimination! shame, i'll have to go back to saving as weather in scotland is too cold for me.

saorachd Mon 01-Nov-10 11:10:06

Some of the comments on the DM article are really awful.
If they set out to incite racial hatred then they have succeeded.

RunnerHasbeen Mon 01-Nov-10 11:27:08

Yes I think it is reciprocal within the EU, it is only England that have moved their goalposts and other countries are having to accommodate it. This is not, as the DM suggests, a new anti-England policy out of nowhere but instead a: what do we do to work around both the fee system in England and the cross EU university freedom of movement.

There was a favouritism towards Scottish students idea flouted at Edinburgh. If it was the cheapest option for English students but going to England prohibitively expensive for Scottish people, less Scottish people would be getting higher education despite higher government funding. This was scrapped but was borne of the same kind of problems as the fee question. No-one has suggested a fairer compromise yet either.

abdnhiker Wed 03-Nov-10 09:53:59

Not racist at all because English families living and working in Scotland would be entitled to free university places along with 'Scottish' kids. It's not about race, but about where the family lives. (I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just saying it is inappropriate to call it racism).

pottonista Thu 04-Nov-10 12:50:51

Non-EU students currently have to pay huge sums to study in the UK, and no-one says this is racist. Scotland's policy is perfectly fair, as long as you see Scotland as a separate nation.

But if they're a separate nation, then surely they can do without the subsidy they currently get from the UK government.

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