Ignorant Times article

[Jimjams]

www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,170-759069,00.html

[Tissy]

Agree about the ignorance, but isn't it the professor rather than the journalist?

[Jimjams]

OK be pedantic My excuse- I'd just read it and was so cross I wasn't thinking straight. I don't think giving big page 3 spreads to this sort of nonsense is particularly helpful though.

[Tissy]

Pedantic is my middle name

[Tissy]

I felt particularly sorry for the poor kids taught by "special needs teacher" "Miss Nomer". What an appropriate nickname!

[elliott]

well.....I can see where you're coming from, but what about the example in last week's cutting edge programme? Surely there ARE grey areas in diagnosis, and probably a lot of 'normally difficult' children might benefit from better advice or support to parents about managing their behaviour (probably applies to every parent actually!)

(not trying to stir here, I think the article is terribly sweeping and gives an unhelpfully negative slant re ADHD and autism - can see how frustrating this must be when many parents face real struggles getting proper diagnosis/recognition/support)

[Jimjams]

You must be my dh tissy - he's always correcting me

elliot I agree some children do receive inappropriate diagnosis- but your bit in brackets sums it up really. For example I went to tesco this morning. I popped ds1 and ds2 in the trolley. At 4 ds1 looks a bit odd in the trolley (especially as he's a big 4), then at the checkout he started screeching and moaning (we had been held up as the till was broken). Now the people behind started "looking"- I didn't say anything in this instance but it can be helpful at times to just say "oh he's autistic" and have people understand something about what that means. If they've read the opinions of the esteemed professor they'll just think "oh bad parenting" bedause of course that's what a screeching 4 year old looks like.

The thing that is really annoying is that the good old prof doesn't even seem to know anything about autism. For example she says "I recently visited a special school which had 27 children diagnosed as autistic. Of those, only 2 that I met displayed the lack of eye contact and absence of empathy which denotes true autism". Whilst lack of eye contact and empathy can be used as part of an autism diagnosis they are not pre-requisits. My ds1 - makes very good eye contact when he is happy and content with people. He also has empathy (albeit somewhat delayed- but he is very affectionate). However he can't speak, and doesn't understand language except nouns. At the end of the day i don't care whether they call it autism or a language disorder, I just don't want them calling it bad parenting. We went through bloody refrigerator mothers in the 60's and 70's.

Phew got that off my chest. I feel better now!

[Jimjams]

Tissy - I agree. I have heard that in some schools those sorts of descriptions become the norm. Is it any wonder that autistic spectrum children form the fastest growing group of home educators?

[elliott]

jimjams, that sentence also leapt out at me (about the 'true signs' of autism) - I thought 'hmmm, anyone who thinks its as easy as looking for just two key signs must be a bit dodgy'.

[Jimjams]

Reminded me of the dietician who told me ds1 couldn't possibly be autistic because he picked up his toys when I told him to. That could be an easy way to diagnose....

Actually i'm always being told that ds1 doesn't look autistic, and that he's "far too friendly". Now that doesn't bother me at all, in fact I rather like people saying that as I know that he's just blown away their preconceptions of autism (little boy totally shut off rocking in the corner). But it is useful to have a name for when he starts freaking out because the door shut before he got to it, or someone put the hoover away without him seeing it go in the cupboard. At that stage they understand autism isn't all about being cold, unfeeling and not making eye contact, but about something much more complex than that. And to see it put down to bad parenting because the children can make eye contact aagggghhhhh.

There was a similar article in the Sunday Mail yesterday apparently- this time about ADHD. Feeling a bit under attack.

[Jimjams]

Here we go- from a recent report on ds1-

"A clearly enjoys cuddles and physical contact from his parents. He initiates social contact with them and shows some examples of sustained eye contact. However, during the session I did feel there were some problems maintaining eye contact with those he doesn't know well"

Another report from the same time:

"A is a charming boy who shares a warm relationship with his mother. He has passive eye contact initially which tends to imporve as time goes by"

Another one:
"A is so motivated to communicate he can become frustrated with adults if they cannot understand his attempts or produce the word for him.......He makes some good eye contact and uses animated facial expressions"

[Lil]

I was talking to Ds' teacher the other day and what she says sticks with me.. she said that she has a lot more diagnosed children with 'special needs' in her classes and has to give them extra time/facilities, but she has been a teacher a long time and doesn't think there are more 'special needs children' just their labelling e.g. remember when we were kids and there was always one or two children in the class that were picked on because they were 'odd' or 'thick' or 'mental'. Now we have a label for these children that does mean they can be singled out for more help.

...but having said that, surely articles like the Times one do have a valid point. That kids today are less active and more exposed to chemicals in food that could explain behaviours that are being mis-diagnosed as 'special needs'. I have a friend who has a 7yr old son whose behaviour is aggressive and violent. He swears at pupils and teacher alike, and is pretty well antisocial. A prime candidate for Ritalin! He has been like this or years, but recently he has been put on a sugar/additive free diet and is a wonder to behold! He even know what he mustn't eat and knows why.

Jimjams I know you are understandably more sensitive to 'one sided' articles such as the times one, but you regularly highlight the effect of diet on behaviour..don't you agree that there is a lot of misdiagnosis? Doesn't that in effect muddy the water for you and make it harder for people to realise what autism is really about?

[eefs]

Jimjams - sorry, "refrigerator mother"?

[Jimjams]

"refrigerator mother" refers to Bettleheim who was a psychologist (? paediatrician? someone involved in children). His views were widely accepted during the 60's and early 70's (and unfortunately remain in some places today). He said that children became autistic because their mother's responded inappropriately to them. Becuase they were unable to get the love and care they needed from thier mothers they withdrew and became autistic.

One of my friends with a severely autistic 8 year old (I think he's still non-verbal) has just discovered that her GP had written to various people saying that her son's problems were caused by her interaction with him.

Lil- a diet working doesn't mean he was mis-diagnosed. My son respomds incredibly well to dietary changes. On gluten he is far more obsessive, withdrawn and generally "autistic" than when he is gluten free. This doesn't make him any less autistic. In the same way children with ADHD/dyspraxia who repond to fish oils still had ADHD/dyspraxia.

[Lil]

Jimjams, have you ever come across children that have perhaps been misdiagnosed as special needs (ADHD, autism etc) when they weren't?

[Lil]

sorry jimjams if that is an unfair question since you are undoubtedly too busy getting people to realise what autism is, rather than what it isn't!

[Jimjams]

Not ADHD or autism Lil. I have come across people who have had problems getting a diagnosis though.

One thing I did used to think was a bit unfair in my teaching days was dyslexia. I taught people who were severely dyslexic, but also those who really didn't have much of a problem (which isn't to say they didn't have any problem - just they weren't that disadvantaged by it). Yet all cases got the same extra time in exams- 25%. I suppose this is a problem with labelling rather than assessing individual needs. I prefer these diagnoses to be seen as signposts rather than as a label which can be used to lump wildly different kids together.

[ScummyMummy]

Hmmm. I absolutely, totally and utterly agree that autism and ADHD aren't caused by bad parenting, jimjams and I'm disgusted at the attitude of the teachers who are quoted. What chance do children have when the bloody SPECIAL NEEDS teachers are that horrible, ffs?

But I do wonder if this article doesn't have a rather different and more valid point, albeit expressed in a rather sweeping and ignorant fashion and backed by idiots, namely that there are some children, who are misdiagnosed? Obviously both autism and ADHD are diagnosed on the basis of behavioural criteria and I think there is always the possibility that certain behaviours associated with those disorders will be seen in non-autistic or ADHD children as the result of a non-organic cause. I've worked with children who've suffered the trauma of living through wars, seeing their parents killed and other terrible things that no person should have to experience ever, who had some behaviours that could have been mistaken for autism, for example, but were actually the result of trauma. Equally I've seen a couple of young toddlers who really do seem to be developing normally getting ADHD diagnoses, seemingly based on their parents' reports of inability to cope. I also think that a very small minority of the psychiatrists I come across are diagnosis happy, as it were, and don't even seem to follow their own guidelines... None of which means that autism and ADHD are created by parents because they are not not not and I can see that the suggestion that they are in this article is truly infuriating.

[Jimjams]

Scummy- I'm absolutely certain some children wil be misdiagnosed- an example being the girl in the Cutting Edge programme last week, but a far more common problem is a) getting a diagnosis and b)getting teachers to understand what that means. In some ways we are lucky- ds1 can't talk so no-one disputes his problems, but friends with HFA children really have suffered.

I suppose the big problem I have with the article- is its "take home message". For those unfamiliar with the complexities of autism/ADHD it's all too easy to blame it on bad parenting, and this just backs that up. It really is infuriating. Particularly when this sweeping generalisation comes form someone so obviously ignorant of the conditions. For example she described autism as a "beahvioual syndrome"- it's a developmental disorder.

[fio2]

God jimjams articles like this really dont help do they? I have been accused, well overheard someone actually, talking about me saying I dont look after my dd properly-talk to her enough and this is why she has problems. And then you open the paper(and I think it has been on the news aswell) and there is an article backing up some ignorant pigs views. I just think people do not understand development/learning problems and put it down to parenting, but you would think a paed/phychologist would be more knowledgeable. Makes you want to scream.