Reading.....struggling here [sad]

[becaroo]

Hi all. Can I ask some advice?

My ds1 is 7 next month. He was officially labelled a "struggling reader" in his 1st term in year 1 (18 months ago) and his experiences at school (up to Jan this year) have made him very upset/angry/frightened of reading and literacy.

I started using "toe by toe" at home 18 months ago to help him which has been great but he now dislikes using it so we have stopped. We also used an online early reading programme "headsprout" which helped too.

I am not bothered at all about teaching him to the National curriculum as I feel at this age I should just concentrate on reading and numeracy (with a bit of science thrown in as he likes it!) BUT I am getting anxious about his reading skills.

I have just started using "yes we can read" with him (which I feel is very similar to toe by toe actually) but wanted to ask you all if I am being an idiot or not????

Each day (well, most days) we do;
some pages of yes we can read
Spelling practise
handwriting practise
a couple of pages of a numeracy workbook
or mathswhizz online maths programme
a couple of pages of a science workbook

I would say we spend about 1-1.5 hours per day like this and then the rest of the day learning (i.e.playing!) autonomously, visiting people, on outings and watching dvds etc.

He can sound out words like "navigator" "disagreement" and other long, complicated words and yet struggles with "were", "here" and "would". I realise these words are tricky as they are not phonetic, but it is worrying me that he is still finding them diffiuclt.

I know what you will say! ...in other countries they dont start literacy til 7 but the thought of stopping teaching - or trying! - to teach literacy scares the hell out of me as I really dont want him to regress or forget what he has already learnt IYSWIM?

The HE books I have read arent really helpful as the kids in them seemed able to read from an early age (4!!) and dont really address what to do if your child is not a fluent reader. A lot of them assume the child can read well and make suggestions based on that.

Sigh....help!!!!

[Marjoriew]

You could be talking about grandson, becaroo. He is exactly like your ds - big words roll off his tongue but the same words you mention, he struggles with.

In the past, I got a bit stressed out about it, but it filters through to them if they see it. I've read up lots on this, about kids who don't start reading until they are about 10 or 11, especially so with boys.
We have over 300 books in the house and he loves them, but now I've found some books [mentioned on the other thread] that he likes.
I tried the reading a few pages every day, and I dreaded it and so did grandson.
Now we do what I call 'reading for a purpose' which is because grandson does lots of lapbooking projects and so we just read about whatever subject we are working on - Egyptians, Frogs, and at the moment, it's a Sunflower Project.
I know it's worrying for you because I've been there with grandson - but it will happen, I'm sure.

[ommmward]

I would just read TO your child, whatever they want to hear, but particularly things with big print and not too many words per page. When he feels like reading bits of it independently, he'll tell you.

Mrs Wobble the Waitress says something really inspiring about children being like icebergs - 90% of the learning is happening out of sight below the waterline. So if you can really chill and back off, he won't stop learning.

Engage in lots of activities where literacy is a neat add on. Like starfall.com has loads of nice stories where you can read them aloud, or he can listen online, or he can read the bits he wants.

Clifford the Dog has lots of stories with word games online

Wordgirl might be good for a 7yo; we've found alphablocks absolutely brilliant (on the CBeebies website) although they might seem a little babyish; superwhy is also fab (pbskids). Lots of online games are great fun and help you learn to read almost as a happy byproduct, certainly as far as the child is concerned.

remember that it's much harder to learn when you are anxious or bored. inefficient at best.

a good game is where you have a conversation, but the adult writes their bit down on paper rather than speaking

And I am horrified that a 5 year old gets labelled a struggling reader. bloody schools.

[stressedHEmum]

If I were you, I would move away from trying to get him to read and concentrate more on reading to him. Also, forget about reading schemes, as such, and try to find books that he likes.

I have a 13 year old that, at 11 when I removed him from school, had a measured reading age of 6. It used to really stress me out, made me snappy at him when he didn't learn. All that did was knock his confidence further and really put him off. SO, I backed right off, found books that I read aloud every day and found other books that he could read and enjoyed. At 11, he was reading Horrid HEnry, CAptain Underpants, Rotten School, Astrosaurs etc. Now he is ahead of his peers, reads every day, has read all Rangers Apprentice, Percy JAckson, Artemis FOwl, Wind On Fire, SKulduggery PLeasant and many, many more and is starting on the Triskellion trilogy. 2 years ago, no one would ever have believed that he could do that.

I also have a 7 year old who is just beginning to read. We don't do reading lessons or follow a scheme because we tried and he HATED it. It made him cross and weepy and if he couldn't get things right away, he became very frustrated and would refuse to continue. So, I read to him every day and get him to join in with the words that he can read, get him to try to sound out others, play games with the words like finding ones that make an "ite" sound or a "sh" one or whatever, finding words within words, counting syllables etc.. He also really enjoys Starfall.com ( I subscribe but the free one is good as well) the Cbeebies website, the Magic Key and other stuff like that.

Listening to other people reading is very important in developing literacy, so he won't forget what he knows if you start doing the reading. I have also found that if there is a purpose to the reading, kids learn faster. For example, DS4 can read the instructions, on screen, for nintendo or comuputer games, he just doesn't like anyone to know!

I can't believe that a school would label such a small child a struggling reader, especially after such a short time. Good grief, shouldn't they have been trying to encourage him and find stuff to help him progress. I think that the important thing is to try not to worry about it, too much. It will rub of on your child and make him more reluctant than ever, IME.

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

Ommward -

Becaroo - yes, I agree with the others. Take the pressure off. I think there can be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've seen children tell people they can't read...ergo, they can't read!

I really would just stop doing literacy as a specific educational activity, and just make it a part of life.

My children like playing all sorts of games that have a 'learning to read' slant - some bought, some made by myself. I think they would all be putting the brakes on if I tried to do what you're doing though, and I would be terrified of making it so they didn't like books and reading.

Just read to him, a lot, and play games, a lot, and make use of the fab websites that are out there. Sesame street is a good website, as is starfall that Ommward already mentioned. How about education city? As long as it's primarily for fun, then it's good. Visible learning is a bonus.

[becaroo]

Hello all and thank you for your speedy replies.

I think I am going to do as you suggest but I am going to need a bit of hand holding, ok??

I think I realised that I am going about this the wrong way when on thursday I actually shouted at him because he said a word wrong. I am not proud of that and am ashamed to admit it here, but I think I have become so stressed out too that he is starting to be worried about reading to me How screwed up is that????

How would you suggest I proceed re: literacy then? As I said, at the moment we do handwriting practise (which he likes) and spellings (less so) and pages of yes we can read.

Do I stop doing all of it? Some of it? I will look into the websites you mentioned, thank you all x

[becaroo]

Erm....marjoriew whats lapbooking??

ommmward Think labelling a child at 5 is bad???? I was told by a member of staff in nursery that ds1 needed to "grow up" and do more for himself. He was 3 yrs 3 months old. Soon put her straight. (Interestingly, when her dd started at the nursery she told me that "we expect too much from them at this age"!!!!!!) I agree!

Really wish I hadnt exposed him to all the negativity he experienced in school, but am trying to make it right.

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

Becaroo - google lapbooking - loads of sites explaining it. basically it's making project books with those file folder thingies.

I'm getting the impression you feel the need to do something daily that you can label with literacy and numeracy. Do you not think you are already incorporating those things into your daily life (the autonomous bit), just not labelling it as such...and maybe not giving it much credence because it's not at a set time?

Here's a challenge for you - tomorrow, don't do your literacy/numeracy morning and just be autonomous all day long. Everything you see your DS doing, mentally think of all the NC 'subjects' he's covering by doing it.

So...maybe he's playing with lego - that's numeracy (working with patterns etc.), science and probably a load more. Going shopping with you? Maybe you ask him to go and look for something specific - literacy. Do you need to know the price? Numeracy. You read him a story - literacy.

Then think about lots of activities you could do with him to make sure there's even more of those things going on. Maybe sign him up to postcrossing if he's interested - writing and sending postcards around the world and getting some back. Geography, literacy, numeracy.

Does he enjoy writing emails? Could you get him a few email pals?

[becaroo]

Hi Mrs wobble.

I suppose I have gone down the structured route as a way of having something to "show" the LEA that I am providing an education for him IYSWIM? Although we havent got another visit til next spring, I am already making lists of books he has read with me etc and keeping the workbooks he has completed.

I feel he learns a lot from just chatting with me and his GP and my dh and also from watching dvds, visits etc but I would like him to also "do" something, you know? Have something concrete to show his understanding of a topic.

He likes numeracy and we use mathswhizz. He also likes science, specifically about animals and wildlife.

He is not really into computer games, he doesnt have a ds or wii or anything like that but will look at vidoes on youtube and we google stuff if we want info. Would like to get him a bit more into ICT but not sure how.

He is not at all interested in art...will draw but only occasionally and I dont push it.

He loves animals and I try to incorporate that into what we do i.e. reading books, dvds, visits but I am worried that he spends a lot of time watching dvds (mostly wildlife or science ones about machines although he does enjoy wallace and grommit and madagascar too) He has all of the david attenborough dvd collection and loves them. We are members of a wildlife watch group which meets once a month but the last couple of outings have really been aimed at older children so we havent gone.

He is such a clever little boy with a great vocab and a genuine enthusiasm for whatever he is doing. He always gives 100%.

Will check out lapbooking....that way ds1 will be having fun and I would have something to show the LEA!!!

Thanks again x

[becaroo]

oh, and he doesnt really like lego either...he doesnt really like anyhting that other boys his age seem to be into

He loves playing imaginary games and will happily spend half an hour being a certain type of animal or we play police dogs (I am the handler!) or he imagines himself driving a big machine like a truck and making petrol stops and all that sort of thing.

He also loves riding his bike, scooter and being outdoors.

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

I worry, for my children, that putting emphasis on them producing something concrete to prove their learning could damage their learning...and I have actually found that to be true sometimes. And, as Ommward said, I don't actually believe it shows much at all in comparison to what they actually know.

You don't have to produce evidence - just keep a diary of all the things you do and, for your own peace of mind, relate it to the NC if you like.

My nearly 7yo refuses to do anything that I could keep to show an LA inspector and if I try to get her to do things, she switches off and becomes sulky and it damages our relationship based on mutual respect. I refuse to do harm to my child just to suit an LA inspector when it isn't even a legal requirement to do so.

I only mentioned lego as something that he may enjoy, but I bet you can find opportunities for literacy and numeracy acquisition in most things he does.

Does he not play on the computer because he doesn't enjoy it? Or because you don't think it's good for him?

[MrsWobbleTheWaitress]

Oh, and read John Holt for wonderful explanations for how important play is to learning.

My children do most of their learning through watching a dvd or something on tv, then asking a million and one questions about it, then playing it every hour of every day for a few weeks, then watching more about it, then visiting museums etc., then playing it a bit more...

[schroeder]

I'm sorry I haven't read quite all the thread. It sounds a bit like you are trying too hard and this might actually put your little boy off.
I know it's worrying for you, but you might achieve more just by doing little positive reading related things.

I would read to him every night.

Take him to the library and let him choose what he likes it doesn't matter if it's Where's Wally, Spot the dog or Captain underpants. Just looking at books and enjoying them is the most important thing try to resist nudging him towards things you think would be good for him.

Read yourself when he's around, let him see how much you like to do it.

Does he get a magazine sometimes? Let him choose, again it doesn't have to be educational or even have many words (match for example is rubbish, but if he's into football he might love it)

What you want to achieve is a child who likes to look at books, this is the best incentive I think you can give him, so he can get away from only associating reading with school and homework.

hth

[becaroo]

Oh damn and blast it!!! I just typed a big post and the PC crashed!!!! AArggh!!!

Ok, very condensed version of lost post;

computer games; he just doesnt seem to like them. Dont know why. Perhaps because it involves sitting in one place for an amount of time??

lego etc: I can understand why you suggested it - most boys his age love it but he doesnt for some reason.

I really feel I have been going wrong and that I need to back off and go with the flow for a bit. Not sure what dh will think of that

lapbooking: seems great and something that ds1 would enjoy BUT videos on youtuve just showed you how and nothing about content. Also, as a parent do you help/suggest/supervise or let them get on with it? For example, if he did a lapbook on trucks what could he include??

For someone like me who is a compulsive and passionate reader it almost seems like a cosmic joke to have a child that doesnt like to read. I can blame nursery and school for most of it, but I think I have to take my share of the blame too

Thanks again for all the great advice.

mrs wobble I am glad your dc use the dvd for learing too. Some days I feel the tv/dvd is my sons teacher not me

[stressedHEmum]

Becaroo, when you first start of with lapbooking there are websites which sell outlines and templates on all sorts of subjects. They tend to have all the info, website suggestions, related reading etc. also templates for the little mini books and ideas for things to fill them. There are also some sites which have free lapbooking material. If you google, you should have no problem finding some. I used to use Currclick and Hand of a child quite often and we have done all sorts of things from Peter Rabbit to butterflies to monster trucks, also things like dental health, spiders (based around Little Miss Muffet), Aesop's Fables, Easter, Christmas, Volcanos, MAgic Treehouse, letters and numbers, telling the time, seasons, ladybirds, horses, hippos......

Younger kids really enjoy them as they are very hands on. You need to help with the reading and things like the cutting out, but it is a good way to encourage independent learning. One of the good things about lapbooks is that they cover all sorts of areas at once. When we did Monster trucks for instance, we learnt about colours, patterns, sequences, tires, alphabetizing, simple counting, memory match games and more. With the Velveteen Rabbit we learned about rabbits, about germs, a bit about childhood in past times, we made little jigsaws, played picture bingo, did word searches and crosswords, alphabetized, sequenced the story, wrote a rabbit poem, made rabbitty sum cards with carrots and things, made a rabbit paper bag puppet and more. Easter and Christmas allowed us to explore the religious stuff but also to learn a bit about the Romans, Jewish culture, the ancient mediterrranean as well. Also with the Olympics, we were able to explore Greek myth and culture, the role of women in ancient societies as well as doing the usual stuff with literacy and numeracy with things like graphing results or making charts of favourite sports/Greek god, using a frizbee as a discus and measuring how far we could throw it then recording the results!

Lapbooks are only really limited by your imagination, really. Buying a few ready worked out ones first is quite a good way to let you see what's involved.

I don't think that you should worry too much about being your DS's teacher. I always like to think that they teach themselves, we just help them along the way. If you wanted to try lapbooking, try letting your DS pick something that he likes, or a book he has enjoyed and do something on that first of all and see hw you go. And try to remember that it's not a race, lapbooking can take you all over the place.

[throckenholt]

give him time - my ds1 is nearly 9 - he is now an avid reader, but at nearly 7 it was still a struggle (and at 6 it was a nightmare for all concerned). I have come to the conclusion that they get it when they get it - and you can't rush that.

Just keep reading to him, giving him the chance to see the value of reading, and hopefully in a year or so you will see a change.

[CSLewis]

Hi Becaroo - Go back and read the article I posted a few weeks ago about there being no long-term difference in ability between those who were taught to read at five, and those who left it till 7.

I do understand how you are feeling. My eldest dd will be 8 in August, and reading is still uphill work for her. Similar to your son, she is strong on phonetic decoding, but sight words she will get one day and then not the next - though long-term exposure, is definitely improving this.

I think the key, as others have said, is not to divorce the process of 'learning to read' from the ultimate goal, reading books. I read to my daughter books that she wants to hear but are beyond her reading ability (Little House on the Prairie atm), and then get her a decent variety of books that she can read herself, some with virtually no help at all, and some which she'll find more challenging, and in which she might only know 80% of words on a particular page. If you search 'I can read' on Amazon, it brings up a multi-level reading series, by lots of different authors, which are quite fun. My dd's on Level 1.

I think continued exposure to words and books, but in as relaxed a manner as possible, is the key. If you make it into 'schoolwork', it becomes something at which he can - and has - 'failed' (ridiculous school to label a 5yo as struggling ). If reading is just something that happens every day, in a fun way, he will get better and better - maybe not as quickly or in as linear a fashion as you'd like, but at least then you don't risk him being turned off it completely and becoming phobic.

Believe me, I feel your pain! And I find it difficult to trust the process too, but the alternatives seem just too risky to me.

[Longtalljosie]

Becaroo - if your DS is dyslexic (and my sister who is acutely dyslexic also found longer, phonetic words easier to spell) the sooner the diagnosis, the better.

Has he been assessed?

[becaroo]

Thanks for that cslewis I need to trust him a bit more, I think. And also get the schools attitude out of my system! Its so hard when other children seem to just "get it" and yours doesnt. Ds1 hd some significant developmental delay as a baby so it is perhaps not surprising that he is a bit slower in grasping literacy then others. His reception teacher (who was lovely and who he adored) told me ds1 was one of those kids who would get to 7 and it would just "click". I hope so. She left after 1 year which is a shame. She refused to push the kids and did a lot of play based learing and singing and stuff with them which is not what the head wanted. Shame. Schools need more teachers with that level of common sense!

longtalljosie I asked for him to be assessed when he was in year 1 (partially because I thought it was a real possibility and partially because of his developmental delay as a baby) which they did after much hassle. He was found to be at low risk of dyslexia but they referred him for speech therapy!!!! Needless to say the SALT could find no problems at all!

We have just done a page of his science workbook (which he enjoys) and page of his numeracy workbook (which he also likes) and we are about to start our first lapbook - on sharks!!!!

When I told ds1 that we were no longer going to "do" literacy he threw his arms round me and told me he loved me ...says it all really, doesnt it?

Thanks so much again x

[seeker]

I haven't read the whole thread - please forgive me for posting and running, but I only discovered this weekend that some dyslexic children don't have problems with long and complex words, but do find the shorter connecting words difficult. I'm sure you know this already, but just in case you didn't, I thought I'd post. Obviously, if there is an element of dyslexie then your approach would be different than if he was just not ready yet. I do hope this helps.

[becaroo]

Hello seeker

I am unsure tbh.

Like I said, he was assessed by the SENCO and was felt to be "low risk" and she said that he actually scored quite highly in some tasks.

I am hoping that it is a case of him just not being ready and the school and me pushing him to do something he cant do at the moment.

I guess it will be a case of seeing how a "hands off" approach goes and if we have no improvement over the next few months I may get him assessed again.

Its ironic, really. I did everyhting the books tell you not to.....bought reading schemes, workbooks etc. Must have spent about £200 all told - eek!

Oh well, that'll teach me! Listen to other HE'ers!!! They know what they are talking about!

[seeker]

Sounds like it's time to wait and see. I was helping my friend's child with her homework at the weekend, and she hwas confidently reading and writing words like carnivorous but was getting very confused with the smaller words - particularly those that have multiple spellings/meanings, and she is dyslexic. Your post just reminded me of this child a bit. But it alos sounds as if he needs a bit more 'de-schooling" before you can be sure about anything - so I would just read to him loads and see what happens!