home ed concern

[impossibletofindaNN]

I am concerned about a friend home educating her children. I think home education is better than school if it is done. My df does not seem to be doing anything of the sort. The children are infant school age and cannot read, write or do basic maths to any extent. The reason for this is because 'that is what school does', she doesn't want to teach them anything as then it would be like school. She has said that is she just leaves them to it eventually they will just know how to do all that stuff. The children have no interest in anything other than watching the tv and she is more than happy to let them do that. I was wondering if anyone could suggest what to do in this situation, or if I should just leave her to it.

[I8haggis4T]

It doesn't sound good, but time is on their side at the moment. I knew a lady down the road from me who had an unanounced visit from the local education officer a few years after moving into the area. She had home educated her four children (until they asked to go to a local secondary) very thoroughly and had kept a very good record of everything she had done with them and so could prove without a shadow of a doubt that she was meeting their educational needs. It was unclear why she got this visit (small town snooping comes to mind!), but she handled it very well and thought positively about the situation and the care the authority had taken to safeguard her children's educational needs - even although it had taken them years to twig that they were not in the state system. Maybe by making a passing comment to your df about this case may just plant the seed that she needs to be doing things differently. Otherwise, later on you may face the awful dilema of feeling obliged to do something more official for the sake of the children, although then risk losing a friend. Best of luck.

[throckenholt]

This is what is known as "autonomous education" - ie they will find what they need and want to know when it is appropriate. It is very much an act of faith and not something you can really assess until the person is grown up (when it is maybe too late). As the adult in that situation you ought to be enabling them to explore - not sure watching tv all the time (particularly if it is kids programs) does that.

Not my approach personally.

How old are the children - the urge to want to read and write etc often doesn't come naturally until later primary age if left to their own devices. Doesn't mean they are learning lots of other stuff in other ways.

Maybe have an open minded chat about it with your friend - say you have read a little bit about autonomous education (which you think is her approach) and ask her how it actually works. Might stimulate her to be a bit more proactive in opening their eyes to the world around them.

[Middleagedmotheroftwo]

Depending on how old the children are, it may be OK still. Children in many other countries don't starts school until they are 6 or 7.

However, IMO, I'd keep out if it unless you want to dob her in. You're either going to lose the battle, or your friendship (and probably both).

[morethanpotatoprints]

Hello OP.

Yes it sounds like your friend id following an autonomous approach.
This is fine by the sounds of it and the children will soon start finding subjects they are interested in.
One day they will learn to read and write, when it becomes important to them, until then they will learn from play.
To put your mind at rest, she is doing nothing wrong at all in terms of the law.

[morethanpotatoprints]

I8Haggis

Just for the record, you are under no obligation to meet with any official due to H.ed
The LA can ask for details but you are under no obligation to have any contact at all. They have no jurisdiction to turn up at your home, and you are within your rights to send them packing.
This lady was very accommodating to them, under these circumstances.

[I8haggis4T]

Ah, I didn't know that. Although it may be a difference in Scots and English law, I don't know. But then again she probably did the right thing then in terms of not raising any unwanted attention.

[I8haggis4T]

btw she did a wonderful job with her home education, a really lovely lady, and her children had no issues when they made the decision to join the state system.

[morethanpotatoprints]

I8

I'm so daft sometimes. A name like haggis and I missed the Scots connection.

You are totally right, the law is different in Scotland, I'm not sure in what respect, but have heard of this.

I'll get my coat.

[I8haggis4T]

morethanpotatoprints

No worries;)

[impossibletofindaNN]

Thank you everyone for the helpful replies. I guess I will just have to share her faith that one day they will just 'get it'
I have a lot of faith in home ed which is why I didn't want to dob her in. Equally I didn't want to lose a friend but saying she should do more

morethanpotatoprints its the lack of play makes me confused about the situation. They will more than happily sit in front of the tv all day and df is happy to facilitate that.

[I8haggis4T]

I am not advocating (or otherwise) children watching TV, but I remember putting my DD infront of the telly for 20 mins to get her lunch ready before nursery (as I was frightened in case I spilt my hot scottish broth all over her as she was very quick to get under my feet). I knew she was watching a children's programme but did not really pay attention to it. It was a few weeks later that the nursery staff asked who was deaf in my family as DD was teaching the other children sign language. When I got home with her I asked where she had learned it and she said from the telly. I never did pluck up the courage to admit that to the nursery.

[throckenholt]

I think preschool kids can learn a lot from tv aimed at their age group - I am not so sure that is the case for pre-teen and teenage.

If you want to help your friend - then show a genuine interest in what they do and how they are learning - and in talking to you about it she may realise there are some gaps in their approach or different things she could try.

HE will evolve over time for any family - so what they do now will not necessarily be what they do next year or in 5 years time.

[ommmward]

I have known children who looked like they were just watching kids TV, for months, even years at a time. Doing other stuff too, but a LOT of TV.

And then the TV shows they knew so well became the foundation for the most astonishing imaginative stuff - making up complex song lyrics, making animations, drawing pictures, writing stories.

Key things (IMO) are:

• have closed captions on, so the child can pick up reading at the same time
  
• make sure the child has access to the internet so they can play games related to those shows
  
• read books related to those shows to the children, even Dora the Explorer
  
• have toys related to the shows, because they can become the basis for imaginative play
  
• provide the magazines related to the shows, for the children to use as they want.
  

These are the sorts of things you might be able to suggest in a friendly and non-threatening way to the friend "I heard of a woman who always put closed captions on, to help her children learn to read"; "here's a Tellytubbies book I picked up for you in Age Concern - I should think your daughter might like it since she loves tellytubbies".


And one more thing - google Caitlin Moran. This was pretty much how she and her siblings spent their childhoods, and look how they turned out (one of her sisters wrote "raised by wolves" with her; I think a brother is maybe a screenwriter too?)

[impossibletofindaNN]

The closed captions sounds like a brilliant idea.

[bebanjo]

I was reported to the lea when DD was 5 and I told them I had no intention of teaching DD to read ect.
We have had 2 visits and have had great reports from lea.
As a PP said, many country's do not start reading tell children are 7, so why would anyone think that was bad?
DD started reading in Jan, after she turned 7.

[morethanpotatoprints]

My dd learned to read and write from an early age and went to school.
She started to enjoy both when she was about 9, because they meant something to her, she saw the importance and knew why she was doing them both. Between the ages of 4 and 8 both were begrudgingly done so she believes as some sort of punishment.
Why put them through this?

[Jaynebxl]

It's a myth that children in other countries don't start school til 6 or 7. They may not start the more formal primary school til then but the huge majority will be in a maternelle / kindergarten setting which is very focussed on learning. They wouldn't be sitting around at home watching tv hoping that education will just happen.

[impossibletofindaNN]

I was not on the verge or reporting my friend. I didn't and still don't want to report her as that would not help the situation. I posted so I could get some advice on what, if anything I should do in this situation. Thankfully left with some helpful advice. Just because I'll not be reporting her, doesn't mean somebody else won't. Which is why I wanted tips on what I could do to help.
I see them at least three times a week, which is enough time to notice what they do. My friend freely admits that she won't do anything school like, or let them do anything school like.

[impossibletofindaNN]

verge of*

[Saracen]

Education does "just happen" though, Jayne.

Once you have met enough older children who were home educated autonomously, you begin to relax about this and see that learning happens all the time, in many ways. I don't just mean that they learn through watching TV (though they do) but that there are ample opportunities to learn in other ways throughout the day. These kids won't literally be glued to the TV 24/7. They may watch a good deal more telly than you'd prefer, but of course they have far more time to spare than they would at school because the learning they are doing is so much more efficient.

They'll be going out places (presumably their mum must take them with her when she goes to the bank and the supermarket). They'll chat about all sorts of things while eating lunch and washing up. When their siblings are watching a programme they don't like, they'll wander off and find something else to do. I expect there are toys and books in the house. The OP knows the family reasonably well, or thinks she does, so the kids are being exposed to her and to other adults.

The scenario you may be imagining, with telly-addicted zombies reaching adulthood having done nothing useful throughout their childhood, is really quite far-fetched.

[impossibletofindaNN]

Sorry for the misunderstanding I put that because another poster mentioned about reporting her. I've met loads of home ed children and adults as well as my dp who was home schooled. I've just never seen or heard of this ' education just happening' approach to it. Thank you for the links.

[Jaynebxl]

I wasn't saying it doesn't Saracen, just that it doesn't if they're just plonked in front of the tv. And my main point was to dispell the myth of children not going to school til later in other countries.

[bebanjo]

Steiner schools all over the world do not show any children any written word tell they are 7.
A friend of mine who went to a "normal school" in South Africa did no work on reading or writing tell she was 7.
I cannot speak for every school in every country but yes there are schools and country's that do no reading or writing tell children are 7.
Last year I believe there was a petition of over 100 British academics to parliament asking for the school starting age to be 7.
There is much evidence that making children as young as 4 read when they are not ready courses long term damage to children's education.