Nursery is so awful I am considering HE but where to start!

[twinklingfairy]

How do you find out what she ought to be learning or have learnt by primary 1?
We are Scottish, is the curriculum different to that of England?
I am not sure how far I want to take HE not sure if I am made of the right stuff though I think I could be. I am just a bit daunted by the thought of it all at the moment.
Also quite excited it has to be said

[LackingInspiration]

What you do is you don't worry about what she ought to have learnt by a certain age!

HE in Scotland is slightly differently managed than in England, so you'd need to look up the law - schoolhouse is the name of the scottish HE organisation, so google that. I'm sure someone will be on here to clarify who does know soon, though.

All you need to have to HE is an enjoyment in being with your children and doing things with them. Then they just learn - you'll find yourself visiting places, watching things on tv, helping her play on the computer, reading books to her, having conversations with her, helping her find things out she's interested in.

Have you read anything at all about HE yet? Free Range Education by Terri Dowty is a great starting point. And, to understand autonomous learning, anything by John Holt and How Children Learn At Home by Alan Thomas and Harriet Pattison.

[LackingInspiration]

ps. you know full time education isn't compulsory until the term after she turns 5, so pulling her out of nursery wouldn't strictly constitute home educating anyway...it would just be not sending her to nursery!

[SDeuchars]

You can find the Scottish "Curriculum for Excellence" at www.ltscotland.org.uk/. The Early phase covers up to P1.

However, you do not have to follow it as an EHEer. My oldest is about to go off to university having been EHE all the way through. At 4-5, I would recommend lots of reading (to her, not just trying to get her to read to you) and doing stuff. We did craft, music, science experiments, and cooking. All of those activities involve the sorts of concepts that the curriculum includes (maths, English - different types of material and writing for different purposes). Board games are also good.

Whatever she is interested in, you can facilitate with trips, library books, cheap activities (the Works and other cheap shops have lots of workbooks and materials for young children.

[SDeuchars]

PS: If you do not register her in school, you do not have any legal problems. You just do not send her and the system is the same as in England. If you register her at school, you need permission to withdraw her (it should not be unreasonably withheld but different LAs have different views and it is better not to tangle with them if you can avoid it).

[twinklingfairy]

I have already registered her with the nursery does that mean I will have to ask permission/tell them that I will no longer be sending her.
I am not sure how I feel about primary.
I think she would probably enjoy it, it is just the nursery I have an issue with.
Though from what I am reading it sounds as if HE is a good thing that I had not considered as yet but easily could.
Sorry I am at a bit or a crossroads here.

Does that mean that I could keep her from Primary until after she is 5? She turns 4 this month so theoretically she wouldn't have to start school until Jan 2012. Or would that mean they would keep her back a year not let her start until Aug 2012? I would not be happy with that.
I am complicating things.

It is hard to know what the right decision is. I have just been reading another thread and poor bubbleymummy was getting a really hard time for her decision.
I would be frightened of failing my DD by not sending her.
That would prob be why I was looking for the curriculum, so I could do a bit of reassuring box ticking

Off to find Schoolhouse.

[LucindaCarlisle]

Is it a Nursery attached to the State or council school?

Have you asked the head teacher of the Primary school if you can have a visit and tour of the school.

Does your DD like the nursery?

[LucindaCarlisle]

Also twinklingfairy, Go to your public library and ask what information they have on the curriculum. Or go to your council web site in the format www.glasgow.gov.uk

[midnightexpress]

I'm in Scotland too, and tbh I think you are worrying unduly. My DCs went/go to nursery for just 3 mornings a week, and i don't really think of it as 'education' in the schooly sense of the word. I send them there to have fun in the garden, get muddy and covered in paint/glitter/flour, and to socialise a bit with other children. I take them out of nursery to do other things if I feel like it, without worrying a jot if they miss days/weeks. I wouldn't worry in the slightest about what your DD should or shouldn't have learned by P1. If she's playing, using her imagination etc. she'll pick stuff up.

In what way do you think you'd be failing her by not sending her? TBH, I sometimes feel like I'm failing them by sending them at all, when they'd probably be just as happy at home with me.

[ZZZenAgain]

what do you dislike about the nursery? It wouldn't be any kind of really formal education they get there, so if it isn't what you want for her, I cannot see any problem in keeping her at home.

[twinklingfairy]

Nursery is part of teh school. I have not had any tours or anything of the local school. Had not really thought we were ready for it yet.
Yes, DD does like Nursery but I am just not sure what she is goig to get out of it. The leaders seem .....gosh what do they seem? They seem not to care really. There are 19 children in their group and they seem to be struggling. They were not instilling discipline or manners when I was there ad the whole place just seemed a chaotic mess. When I asked how they managed to freeplay and teach which is the way they are meant to do it. I said that they must have tobe on the ball all the time to see and situation with any oe child.group and run with it. She just shrugged as if to say 'I dunno it is an impossible task.'
I don't hink she likes the new curriculum for excellence she has been there for over 10years.
Anyway I shoudl stop I coudl go on.
I just don't want to seem like I have petty reasons.
DD likes it she see's her friends she has fun but then she is also learning to be disobedient disrespectful and lacking in manners. Just not what I think she needs. She can see her friends elswhere or I coudl possibly travel further to get her to a group that I feel will cover the basics or learning how to be in a group and how to be able to listen and learn.
None of which I feel is covered in this nursery.
Which is hwy I would just pull her out.

I don't know about the Primary school attached. I have been told the P1 teacher despairs because the Nursery children come to her lacking in the basics. Which as an aside they all had whilst in Playgroup but are stripped of in Nursery and in a very short space of time it would seem!

Gsosh lots of reading cheers lucinda
I do have a copy of the curriculum for excellence which a teacher friend tells me is what they recieve. Is that where I shoudl be looking?
I didn't knwo if there was an HE equivalant?
Sos I am confused by it all.

[sandsad]

Nursery has its benefits as it encourages socialisation, learning through play, and other basic skills which they will take with them to school (sitting on the carpet quietly, putting their hand up etc).

On the other hand, they don't need to go and will enjoy a year at home, but I wouldn't consider it HE at this stage. Just, well, being at home.

Perhaps look at another nursery, but please don't get caught up in the curriculum and what they should be learning academically at this stage. Look for a nurturing, caring environment where children are encouraged to be creative, and to be considerate to one another.

[Eglu]

Could you not just move your DD to another nursery. There are good and bad ones out there. It may be worth looking at others.

It is also worth starting to look at the school now, and check out others locally to see if you can find one you like.

This will give you an idea as to whether or not you want to HE.

[twinklingfairy]

And my typing is atrocious!!

[LucindaCarlisle]

Do they do singing and dancing?

[twinklingfairy]

sorry?

No they don't do any dancing but I think when there boss comes in, she likes to do some singing with them. But the main leader doesn't really. As far as I am aware.

Is that a trick question?

[LucindaCarlisle]

No, not a trick question.

It is called music and movement.

It is a part of learning and co-ordination.

[ZZZenAgain]

well it doesn't sound great but she does like it. If you don't lose your school place by removing her from nursery, why not keep her at home? Can't see the harm in it.

Just talk to her a lot (increase her vocab), keep her outdoors a lot, cycling, climbing, swinging, playing in the sand etc and find some sociable time for her to be with other dc and I think that'll be fine.

[LucindaCarlisle]

Think about taking her to Sunday School

[twinklingfairy]

Oh we do lots of that at home. We all love singing and dancing in this house.
DS, nearly 2, is always after 'dancie' on the stereo and DD and I sing lots of songs.
I must get her along to Sunday School.
We went a couple of times in the hols, but there were no classes after. Maybe now that term has started again.

I would still consider HE. Taking her out or Nursery has opened my eyes to the possibilities.
Maybe I will be just as bad re Primary as I am with Nursery.

[ZZZenAgain]

I think so lol. There is so much to get wound up about at school!

[Saracen]

"full time education isn't compulsory until the term after she turns 5, so pulling her out of nursery wouldn't strictly constitute home educating anyway...it would just be not sending her to nursery!"

That's the age in England/Wales. It's older in Scotland. But I agree, keeping children out of nursery is no big deal. I don't know what the statistics are in Scotland, but in England 91% of three year old children who are eligible for free sessions attend some form of preschool/nursery provision. That means that nearly 1 in 10 doesn't. You wouldn't be alone.

So, I wouldn't hesitate to take your daughter out of nursery if it isn't right for her. Then if you are attracted to the idea of home education for primary school, you can start looking into it and thinking about whether it is the right way to go.

[lal123]

Nursery is meant to be chaotic! (to a certain degree anyway). IMO nursery isn't about education and learning, its about having fun nad socialising.

[Saracen]

@sandsad : "Nursery has its benefits as it encourages socialisation, learning through play, and other basic skills which they will take with them to school (sitting on the carpet quietly, putting their hand up etc)."

I think most home educators would quibble with this, though many do like sending their children to nursery for other reasons. Children are learning to socialise from everyone around them all the time. If what you mean is socialisation in a large group of same-age children then yes, nursery does provide that, but not everyone sees this as an essential skill. Learning through play is what young children try to do most of their waking hours, wherever they may be.

True, school-readiness skills such as sitting on the carpet quietly and putting their hands up are taught at nursery. It's one of the reasons why many parents are urged to send their children to nursery. But if it really takes a year or more to get the hang of such simple skills, then clearly the school environment is quite a mismatch for the child and the child doesn't belong there (or not yet)!

Older children I have known - including my own daughter - who have started school without previous experience of nursery or school master all these details with ease within a couple of weeks. It's all about sending them only if and when they are ready to conform to school rules.

[LucindaCarlisle]

Children with a June July or August Birthday can be disadvantaged by having to go to school Too young.

Something needs to be done about THAT.