Article about cap on students from England studying in other regions

[Decorhate]

Article today
www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/30/england-to-limit-students-going-to-wales-scotland-and-n-ireland

It implies that this will affect students due to start uni this September. Which is outrageous if correct.

[dwnldft]

This article is rather misleading.

The point of the number caps is that high tariff institutions should not take far larger numbers of UK students than usual, to make up for lower numbers of international students and knocking the UK recruitment of mid and low tariff universities.

So if the policy wasn't also imposed on Scotland, Wales and N Ireland this would allow popular high tariff universities as St Andrews, Edinburgh etc to take far more English students than usual, when UCL, LSE, Imperial etc have all signed up to number caps for English students not more than 5% above last year's levels. This is clearly isn't tenable: the top English universities would then break rank and take as many students as possible.

[Decorhate]

I understand why that has to happen in relation to clearing places but it’s unfair to impose that now on students who have already firmed a place. And the article implies it is all unis in Scotland/Wales/NI who are affected not just high tariff ones.

[dwnldft]

Yes, of course it has to be all universities - otherwise the mid tariff ones would slaughter the student recruitment low tariff ones (and they'd go bankrupt). And it's not just about clearing: without number caps higher tier universities could choose to confirm way down on their firms, leaving no insurances for universities that rely on these to make up their numbers.

I'm not sure what the issue is: numbers are going to be capped at around last year's levels. This means that students should have about the same chance of getting in as they did last year. Almost all offers were made by UK universities before the number caps were agreed, so were made on the basis of project certain numbers of firms, acceptances after results etc.

Actually, all UK students will probably have a better chance at getting places this year than usual because a significant fraction of students will be looking to defer and it's still a low birth rate cohort. Also UCAS have extended the deadline for student decisions until mid June so a lot of students haven't actually decided on firms yet.

[titchy]

Unfortunately this is what happens when you have a devolved system, and DfE want a nationwide cap then realise they can't impose one...

However, there is not much cross border movement between England and Scotland or NI, so not much of concern there. Plenty of English students at Welsh universities though (more than welsh maybe - have to check) so I'm not surprised the Welsh Gov are up in arms. That said, the cap is high enough to ensure that all qualified applicants will be placed - it's not going to be a competitive year so I don't think individuals need worry.

[TheDrsDocMartens]

Plenty go to Scotland. All of dd2s group of friends are going to uni in Edinburgh (different ones). I know a couple of dd1s friends who went to Scotland too.
Only know 2 in Wales though so probably depends on where you live & how far you want to travel.

[TheDrsDocMartens]

Next year is a high birth year( plus the deferred students )could cause problems.

[titchy]

Relative to the proportion of English students who go to university, very few of them go to Scotland. The fact that you live in the north and know of several doesn't negate that fact.

[titchy]

Actually relatively few go to Wales too! Though English students do make up a third of all students in Welsh universities.

From: scroll down

[TheDrsDocMartens]

Interesting. Still wonder if it’s a northern -go to Scotland / west of England -Wales thing.

From uni threads people talk about easy travel from home or ‘up to 2 hours away’ etc.
My eldest in Cardiff is not easy travel for us, Edinburgh is much easier but isn’t that much closer.

[TheDrsDocMartens]

The changes are likely to hit Wales worse then unless all the home students stay put.

[titchy]

Tbh the DfE doesn't actually have the data to determine each English university's individual cap, so how the fuck they can decide how many English students Cardiff can take is uncertain. I'm sure we'll know more next week...

UK wide though there is capacity to offer a place to all qualified applicants.

[dippycat7]

My son read this article yesterday and is now really worried. He is a student from England with a conditional offer of a place at St Andrews. As if it wasn’t stressful enough for him worrying if he will get the grades, now he is concerned his offer will be withdrawn. His insurance choice is in Scotland too - he really wants to study there because of the flexibility of the 4 year system.

[titchy]

Offers won't be withdrawn don't worry.

[SeasonFinale]

Offers wont be withdrawn. If people fail to make the grades they may then not be considered whereas previously they may have been. It is not just people in the north that go to Scottish unis.

Edinburgh and St Andrews are just as popular as Durham and Bristol for Home Counties and kids from the south.