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Really need advice ideally from people who have done it on which teaching course I should take..

(21 Posts)
LaBoheme Tue 31-Jul-07 12:37:39

the PGCE or the "on the job training" where you are given a placement through the Uni and are paid a small amount as you train.
As far as I know thus far, the PGCE is the only one recognised internationally and is an academic post graduate certificate, but does this make the alternative a lesser qualification?
If anyone can give me more info or pearls of wisdom that would be fantastic.
Thanks in advance


robinpud Tue 31-Jul-07 12:42:00

I did a PGCE and found it an intensely demanding year even though I didn't have children. At the end of the year, I was still pretty green around the gills and needed quite a lot of input of various sorts in my job.
I think the on the job training is becoming more widely offered but you might need to be very careful about where/when/ which teacher etc
Part time PGCEs are available aren't they?
I'm assuming you have kids.. do you need or have childcare?

nearlyheadlessNell Tue 31-Jul-07 12:44:24

I am assuming on the job training means the GTP (Graduate Teacher Programme) GTP is only as good as the school you train at. There are different types of PGCE courses, the SCITT (School Centered Initial Teacher Training) Course goves you 50% in school time and 50% Uni time with a PGCE at the end. You would get a bursary with any PGCE that you do.

What age range/ subject are you hoping to do?

LaBoheme Tue 31-Jul-07 12:45:03

Yes robin I have one dd who will be two by the time I start. I am looking for Primary KS1/2. Ideally don't want to string out over 2 years buy might consider depending on the various implications.
Sorry but what do you mean by which teacher - do you mean which teacher I will be working with when I train..?


nearlyheadlessNell Tue 31-Jul-07 12:49:13

I mangaed my PGCE with ds aged 6 at the time and DH away. You WILL be exhausted and you WILL need excellent childcare provision (at least 8am-5pm) but it is a great course to do.

If you have a placement at a supportive school with an experienced mentor and class teacher, it makes all the difference; a mentor or class teacher who does not know the needs of a student or the practicalities of your PGCE can make a difficult situaltion much worse; but your Uni should keep you sane!

nearlyheadlessNell Tue 31-Jul-07 12:49:49

Where abouts are you?

sAurorhal Tue 31-Jul-07 12:51:02

I guess Robinpud means that a lot depends on the mentor you have. You'll be allocated a teacher who mentors you and who will be responsible for your assessments and ensuring that you have achieved all the standards needed to pass the course.

Having been in a dept where we had both PGCE and GTP students, I personally think if I were to do my training again I'd go for the GTP route. Much more on the job and less time feeling that you are wasting your time in lectures!! As other posters have said, make sure you are in a decent school or it could be a tough old year!!

LaBoheme Tue 31-Jul-07 12:57:59

this is food for thought indeed - i will be living in brighton when i pursue the course...

twinsetandpearls Tue 31-Jul-07 13:01:46

I have worked with a few on the job trained teachers and none of them have been up to scratch tbh, This may be down to the type of person who is attracted to om the job training, perhaps the way on the job training works or just coincedence.

I learnt so much from my PGCE although I did have a fantastic mentor and was very fortunate in my placing. I know that the student teachers we get in our department may have a very tough time and we may be tough on them but I think they all leave good teachers.

I do think that the time in the classroom and the lectures should complement each other and a good teacher should be a reflective practioner and your time in college allows you to do that. I think it may alsi depend on your subject, mine is very theoretical and therefore suits the PGCE root. I also came into teaching very naive and in need of some moulding so found the PGCE suited me, our lectures were also very practical and we had two tutors with very different strenths - one was still a part time teacher so was still at the chalkface and the other had only just left teaching and eas very muchj the kind of teacher that I aspired to be.

robinpud Tue 31-Jul-07 13:02:18

Yes- I do mean that either route will be extremely demanding especially with a child of your own.
Both PGCE and GTP lean quite heavily on individual teachers in particular schools, so you want to be sure that you get placed in a great school with inspiring teachers.
I can see sAurorHal's point about the on the job training being more practical and focused on the role of the classroom teacher; however it was the camaraderie of the people on the PGCE course that gave me the resilience to get through the year and having been in teaching a while now, and seen the way that best practice changes and evolves ( ie we reinvent the bloody wheel) some of the philosophical learning that I did at Uni has underpinned what I think over the longterm.
god- I'm tired and that sounds shite. Someone will come along soon and put it far more succintly..

twinsetandpearls Tue 31-Jul-07 13:09:56

I know where robinpud is coming from re the support of other students teaching your subject as although their may be other student teachers in your school each subject has its own unique challenges, alhtough having said that each school has its own subjects so it id good to gather strength and inspiration from as many people as you can.

We have a train as you teach teacher at our school and while she certainly has quite good classroom management skills she is in my opinion quite a dull teachers as she is not mixing with other new and keen student teachers and instead is spending all her time with rather washed out teachers many of whom are thinking about moving on. Now if she was at college this failing of our school could be balanced out by her college.

hotcrossbunny Tue 31-Jul-07 13:11:59

I agree with robinpud. The PGCE year is a write off socially. Its incredibly demanding, not helped by the second school placement I had where the teacher didn't want a student and was very possessive about 'her' class!
Have you any experience of being in a classroom/working with children? I think I would have found the PGCE experience slightly less onorous if I had known what to expect... Also I could have done with a lot more observing of other teachers methods. I think actual time in the classroom is invaluable before a class it is your own responsibility. However, the lectures/practical sessions at uni were what kept me sane(ish). I needed the time out of the goldfish bowl of observations by my mentor to talk everything over with my student peers.
I haven't really answered you question have I? I don't have experience of the GTP to comment. I think I would probably ring a few schools and gauge their response as to which would make you most employable. HTH

LaBoheme Tue 31-Jul-07 13:57:06

Thank-you all so much - this is exactly what I needed to help me come to an informed decision..

LaBoheme Tue 31-Jul-07 13:58:17

I think I will enquire about the SCITT (School Centered Initial Teacher Training) as this sounds most favorable, altough I don't know if it is an option at the uni I want..

countrylass Thu 02-Aug-07 22:40:07

Having been accepted on a PGCE and Scitt course last September (and having decided to take the PGCE route, whilst a friend took the Scitt route) I can tell you about the differences/similiarities we found:

- on the SCITT more time is spent in school (ie, a few weeks more) and you tend to go in at the 'deep end', ie, teaching groups and classes, far earlier than on the PGCE. Until January (therefore 5 months into the 10 month course) I had taught a class about 8 times.

- the assignment requirements were similiar on both courses with a great emphasis on writing regarding reflecting on practice.

- the PGCE tends to give more subject knowledge due to spending more time in lectures.

- it depends where you take the PGCE, but most are run through universities which means there are alot of people on them - on my course there were up to 200 people in one lecture. The SCITT tends to run with far fewer people, ie, 30 - 70.

- in my experience at interview for both courses, the SCITT tended to be more interested in my personal circumstances and far more reassuring regarding childcare. However, having chosen the PGCE simply due to location, the course leaders were also reasonably accommodating regarding childcare issues. Obviously, this can't be generalised, but I think that the fact that there tends to be far fewer people on the SCITT just makes a difference in this area.

- I have been told the PGCE carries more weight than the SCITT with employers, BUT this is just from schools in my area and my experience.

Hope this helps.

LaBoheme Thu 09-Aug-07 14:39:35

thank-you all so much - still trying to come to a conclusion bearing in mind what you have all said to me x

rarrie Fri 10-Aug-07 19:57:53

Hope this isn't too late, but I would recommend the PGCE. It is generally recognised as the better teaching qualification. HTH

cat64 Fri 10-Aug-07 20:12:03

Message withdrawn

NKF Fri 10-Aug-07 20:21:53

I would advise going for the PGCE. Aside from the course content it's the qualification that schools really want in their teachers.

popsycal Fri 10-Aug-07 20:26:46

agree with nkf
good luck

LaBoheme Fri 24-Aug-07 09:13:58

thank-you all again sooo much PGCE it is i think xx

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