UCL Management Science - anyone still waiting to hear?

[shockthemonkey]

Hello!

UCL has kept two of my students hanging for their Management Science programme. The students completed and submitted the additional questionnaire long ago...

this does now seem a bit slow. Absolutely all other universities' decisions are back, with the exception of one of the vet schools.

Does anyone know why so slow this year?

[Needmoresleep]

That is a seriously competitive course to get onto. Oxfords M&E is reputed to be their most competitive course for UK students, and presumably UCL is not far off. With the added problem that there will be overseas and European students who prefer the idea of studying in London rather than Oxford.

For that reason alone,. I am not surprised they have a few applicants still hanging on. And Brexit has probably made it harder for them to predict numbers, as presumably many French applicants will be now considering Germany, Ireland or the Netherlands in preference to the UK. Student Room is usually the place to go to try and figure out what is happening.

[shockthemonkey]

Thanks sleep ;-)

Interestingly, we are not yet seeing a dip in French applicants for 2020 entry. Of course they would prefer to know, before applying, what precise form Brexit will take, but they realise that to wait for Brexit clarity is to risk missing UCAS deadlines.

If fees increase to international levels as now seems likely, most of these applicants will drop their UK candidacies.

Strangely enough, I met with a development officer from Cambridge who said that they are not expecting Brexit to impact numbers applying from France and Germany. Yet I am pretty sure that if fees were to go up to international levels, not a single one of my students would apply in the UK -- as you say, suddenly Ireland, the Netherlands (and Canada) all become more attractive.

Even the really well-off French families will look at UK international fees and find that they'll possibly get better value (not cheaper fees, but more for their money) in the US.

[Needmoresleep]

Even the really well-off French families will look at UK international fees and find that they'll possibly get better value (not cheaper fees, but more for their money) in the US.

This is a calculation already made in Asia and elsewhere. I have seen international London families add Australia to the mix, with British based Asian families seemingly giving more weight to Singapore and Hong Kong than they might have done previously (the former seems to also be gaining popularity with British science students though for a year abroad/Master rather than a full degree).

It then becomes effectively an investment decision. A UK degree is often three years rather than four, and will be cheaper than an Ivy. The greater international prestige of Harvard probably outweighs this, but Cambridge, Imperial, LSE UCL and Oxford then hold their own as you go down the US rankings. For some subjects like medicine it is a bit of a no brainer. Ireland already attracts lots of US/Canadian students who want to save money by taking medicine as a first degree. One of DS' LSE friends ended up there simply because since she failed to get into one of the very big name US schools, her father reckoned (in retrospect correctly, as she had no problem finding a job) that economics at LSE would maximise her further prospects.

Numbers will fall but fee income per student will rise. And British Universities will have to up their game. Universities like LSE have long been conscious of their need to compete for good students at a world level. I am not sure that this is as well understood across the whole Russel Group/similar.

I also assume with Britain gone, German will become a more important EU language. It has apparently already taken over from French as the most desired second language for employers. So a further incentive to study there.

[pqgh04]

If fees increase to international levels as now seems likely, most of these applicants will drop their UK candidacies.

UK HE is in an unprecedented state of volatility, due to pension cost increases, Brexit, the threat of UK fees being reduced,... AFAIK most universities are planning on EU fees staying at UK levels for the coming few years as increasing to international rates would manifestly collapse the EU market.

BTW for the original question international (non EU) students are also a huge source of volatility and affecting admissions to management and business considerably. The political climate for international students in the US is hostile, as it is in Australia; China is not on good terms with Canada. The pound has fallen, making UK courses cheaper. Accordingly some UK management schools are seeing considerable jumps in applications from non EU students. I'm not sure why that would affect an EU applicant for the UCL course particularly, but it could be part of what is going on.

[MariaNovella]

I’m not sure French families (or EU families resident in France) have really got their heads around international fees and the loss of the right to live/work in the UK post Brexit. And I know that many hypotheses about the price elasticity of EU students post-Brexit have been made and all sorts of scenario planning has taken place in the UK by universities, central government, think tanks etc and there is absolutely no consensus.

German UCAS applications took a severe hit (more severe than French UCAS applications) when fees rise from £3k to £9k.

We would also do well to remember that many more Bulgarians and Romanians took advantage of FOM to the UK than the Blair government had predicted. These things are notoriously hard to know ahead of time.