University Student suspended in freedom of speech row.

(21 Posts)
justasking111 Fri 22-Feb-19 16:35:43

A student at the centre of a freedom of expression row is refusing to take part in diversity training which would allow him back to lectures.

Sebastian Walsh was temporarily suspended from Preston’s University of Central Lancashire (UCLan) after he made “offensive and inappropriate” comments about halal meat and the ‘Islamification of the UK’.

I thought it was encouraged that you debate no matter how daft your point of view. Seemingly not.

It does seem harsh to suspend the student for the rest of the year thinking of the costs involved.

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RedHelenB Fri 22-Feb-19 17:26:51

Depends what exactly he said I suppose.

BubblesBuddy Fri 22-Feb-19 18:05:35

If his reported remarks are true, he used some rather emotive language that could cause offence. In a food discussion it’s reasonable to talk about cruelty to animals. Other embellishments were unnecessary. I don’t think freedom of speech should be interpreted as insulting remarks are tolerated no matter what. However a balanced discussion on difficult topics should be managed by the lecturer or member of staff taking the class. I would have expected other students to robustly defend their position but they presumably took offence. As did the university. I think it’s a case of saying what you understand about the topic without insulting a religion by general sweeping comments.

justasking111 Fri 22-Feb-19 20:06:33

Young people do say stupid things, everything is black and white, they lack the understanding which you gain through experience, plus I suspect they parrot things they have heard at home. This is why I think debate is important, to hear and learn of a different point of view. Suspending him is just polarising his views. He said halal is cruel, nothing original there. He said immigrants should pay for health care. Impossible to set up a system like that.

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BubblesBuddy Fri 22-Feb-19 20:27:10

Well plenty of people do think there shouldn’t be immigrants at all but what does health care have to do with a discussion about food? It wasn’t relevant. How food is produced seems legitimate but taking it beyond that isn’t.

Student politics is always a simple version of reality. A bit like Brexit! However the discussion should have been kept to the point and monitored by staff. I think a discussion with him would have been better. However he veered into unacceptable territory in the wrong forum.

justasking111 Fri 22-Feb-19 20:46:37

What he said from the article link I posted.

"Putting forward his version of what he said in class Sebastian said: “I said I wouldn’t eat a Subway or a KFC because they use halal meat. I’m completely against ritual slaughter - it causes the animal to suffer. I said this is showing the impact of the UK becoming Islamified. “But in fairness it is animal cruelty.

“Then we got onto how there are 30 or 50 Islamic courts in this country which openly discriminate against women. Why are we allowing such courts in the country?

“Then we began talking about the NHS and if it should be privatised. I said it should be privatised for people who are not UK legals.”

So he was talking about halal meat, sharia law, and the NHS treating illegals.

I think having to take part in diversity training and signing a behaviour agreement which he is refusing to do because in his opinion he is signing away his legal rights "Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights" is beyond my ken.

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justasking111 Fri 22-Feb-19 20:46:58

Had to google Article 10, you live and learn.

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JocelynBell1 Sat 23-Feb-19 15:35:18

Sebastian Walsh is North West Regional Chairman at UKIP Young Independence in Wigan.

Invoking Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights Sebastian added: “Why should I sign away my legal rights?”

A central tenet of UKIP policy has been the removal of the UK from European Convention on Human Rights.

The irony.

justasking111 Sat 23-Feb-19 17:12:15

Jocelyn too funny, which is why he needs to be involved in debates to listen and learn.

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kateclarke Sat 23-Feb-19 17:17:46

I read that he is a social work student.

If that’s correct, then his views would affect how suitable he would be in the role and therefore if he should continue the course.

Weezol Sat 23-Feb-19 17:31:37

Attention seeking gobshite gets attention. Oh dear, it's the wrong kind of attention.

Halal slaughter may be cruel, but bullshit claims are bullshit claims. Immigrants, even those from the EU are charged for hospital treatment.

Sharia courts have zero legal standing. The mosques, in common with almost all religions in the UK, are rapidly loosing their influence, especially on the under 25's.

I live in a city with a high percentage of Muslim residents. My city is not 'Islamified' at all. We all rub along, despite what national media would have you believe.

As the old saying in these parts goes "God gived thee two ears and only one gob. Think on, lad".

RancidOldHag Sat 23-Feb-19 17:45:10

That bit quoted above is an account of what he says he meant

It is nit verbatim of what he said.

It seems that in class he expressed his views offensively, and he did niitract/apologise, as anyone who had had a foot-in-mouth moment would . No insight and no contrition.

It is a great shame that he does not have the self-awareness to realise how helpful the proposed course would be. Nor the nous to work out that it is in his interests to attend.

DonaldTwain Sat 23-Feb-19 17:49:19

Sharia courts may not be recognised by the mainstream legal system, but that doesn’t mean they are without influence or that people don’t regard their decisions as binding. It is not good for social cohesion to have a parallel system of religious jurisprudence running alongside the courts of the land. And women are not treated well in such courts. we are and should be free to make these points without repercussions.

Xenia Sat 23-Feb-19 20:33:36

When students are not allowed to hear alternative view of others it is a very sad day - remember our attempts as conservatives to allow our Tory cabinet speakers to be allowed even just to be heard without stuff being thrown at them in the 80s comes to mind. Let people speak and then we can be free to demolish their arguments. Shut them up and we have a police state and we are no better than Saudi or China.

Piggywaspushed Sat 23-Feb-19 21:46:59

uclan has many students from the very community he was criticising/vilifying. May have had some bearing on decisions. No doubt he was attention seeking and shock jockeying. It's alarming to me that he is a social work student : I assume he has no intention of actually being one : we can only hope.

Piggywaspushed Sat 23-Feb-19 21:50:26

Very selective copying and pasting OP !

justasking111 Mon 25-Feb-19 21:49:24

Now a lecturer has fallen foul of modern thinking.

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YeOldeTrout Mon 25-Feb-19 22:01:53

"I know the media haven't told us but I suspect these terror attacks were carried out by Muslims because of Islam."

I guess you firmly agree with that, OP?

That the media is, you know, part of "The Establishment" (unless it's Breitbart, they aren't influential at all, oh no) who secretly or maybe openly keep info from the Sheeple.

Does that mean Christianity is to blame for Waco showdown & Sikhism is to blame for the assasination of Indira Gandhi? While you're agreeing with casting aspersions onto entire religions because of the actions of their maniacs.

What religion should we ascribe to the Finsbury mosque attacker? Beer-worshipper, maybe.

justasking111 Mon 25-Feb-19 22:11:25

Trout I am not saying he is right, he is old enough to know better than tweeting his personal thoughts. What I am trying to get across is freedom of speech was something that unis. encouraged no matter how out there it appeared. I had some very out there lecturers who did make me think. Surely critical thinking is important.

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YeOldeTrout Mon 25-Feb-19 22:18:19

I'm not convinced it promotes critical thinking to declare that a religion is to blame for terrible actions by some adherents.

I know that arguing that "The media" are in cahoots with "The Establishment" to keep the Sheeple down is an annoying conspiracy theory.

Xenia Tue 26-Feb-19 08:36:58

If a stduent cannot blame religion for things gosh how far backwards have we come. If people think that is so then to read or speak or tweet Marx is presumably also banned - "religion is the opium of the people". Are we not allowed to quote Marx these days on Campus? I know the Chinese in China have a new crackdown against students who speak Marxist thoughts but I thought the Uk was more free than that.

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