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Validated architecture degree vs non validated one.

(19 Posts)
NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 07:25:40

Dd is keen to study architecture and has one uni as a distinct preference.

She is predicted the grades she needs for the BArch degree which is RIBA validated. So counts as part 1 of riba?

They also run a BA degree which is non validated and has lower entrance requirements.

At the open day yesterday they said the students from each course do exactly the same course, same lectures, etc. They said if you’re on the BA course if you’ve done well in the first year you can move to the BArch. If you end up on the BA for all three years all you have to do is apply yourself as an individual to RIBA for accreditation. They said you’d get it but you just need to tell them what you’ve done for the last three years.

Dd is considering putting the BA on her ucas form as a sort of insurance because she’s so keen to go to this uni.

I’m worried that getting the riba accreditation won’t be that straight forward? Does anyone know?

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NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 07:26:04

I think I might mean accredited rather than validated.

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MarchingFrogs Sun 30-Sep-18 08:51:31

If the course is not prescribed by the Architects Registration Board and therefore does not give exemption from the RIBA Part 1 exam, the procedure is expensive and if your DD intends to practise as an architect in the UK, I don't see why she would choose to go down that route?

www.arb.org.uk/architect-information/

My impression (have been looking for a while out of curiosity, as DS2 wants to be an architect) is that where there is a Part 1 exempt and a non-exempt option, the latter may be pitched mainly at foreign students not intending to practise as an architect in the UK?

NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 08:53:46

I don’t think she would choose to do it unless she had to. She’d rather do the BArch but is thinking about doing the BA if she didn’t get a place on the BArch.

Thanks, will look at the link and try and find out how much it will cost and how difficult it is to get the part one if she has to.

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BubblesBuddy Sun 30-Sep-18 09:03:35

RIBA lists their validated schools of architecture and courses on their web site. RIBA is very clear that their list of validated courses meet the requirements of Part 1 of the architecture qualification. There is then parts 2 and 3. 7 years in total. If she wants to become an Architect, do a validated course. They say these courses meet the standards required and therefore, by implication, other courses don’t. Hence a lower entry requirement suggests the course isn’t good enough. It probably qualifies the holder to be an Architectural Technician and NOT an Architect. RIBA don’t have any info on non validated courses so it appears that they don’t recognise the content as being sufficiently rigourius. There’s nothing about applying as an individual from a non validated course.

Therefore do the Validated Course. It would be foolish not to. If she doesn’t make the grades then accept she’s at Technician level which is probably what the lesser course prepares for. I think it’s a mistake to get wedded to one university when you have 5 choices. She’s selling herself short.

NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 09:06:17

Thanks, that’s my gut feeling as well. That she would be better off going and doing another BArch at a different uni if she didn’t get into her first choice.

I’m cross that the uni at the open day made it sound like if you had to apply for registration yourself after a BA degree that it was a case of form filling. It’s an exam with a close to 2k exam fee.

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NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 09:07:29

And it just seems odd that the students from the two courses are taught together and do exactly the same work. It’s essentially the same course with two names/streams.

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BubblesBuddy Sun 30-Sep-18 09:34:26

I would trust RIBA that the courses are not the same. If they were, then why does one ask for higher qualifications? The better one may well have some shared core modules but probably has different optional modules. I think I would phone RIBA in London and speak to their Education Deoartment. I’m sure they will explain it all. I think a non validated course is risky. It’s not about form filling it will be about gaps in education and prep for stage 2.

NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 10:11:42

Thanks, I’ve emailed the ARB in the earlier link and asked for clarification.

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MarchingFrogs Sun 30-Sep-18 10:22:19

Which university is it, out of interest?

MarchingFrogs Sun 30-Sep-18 10:37:36

?Lincoln

BubblesBuddy Sun 30-Sep-18 14:26:09

It’s RIBA that validates the courses and is the body responsible for architect education.

NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 18:25:29

Ah thanks, will contact riba.

Yes, lincoln.

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NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 18:26:46

And they certainly gave the impression that the different students have 100% the same experience so if that’s not true then it’s not very good that they’re being so misleading.

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Optisight Sun 30-Sep-18 21:28:17

Do not go down the non accredited route it'll be a waste of time and money. She will get on an accredited course unless her A level grades are really poor, in which case being brutally honest an architecture degree is not the degree to be doing where ever you do it. (Lincoln just want bums on seats!)

Speaking as the Mum of a now 3rd yr Architecture student, we agonised over University choices, predicted grades and expected offers. All the Universities seem to be asking AAB at the very least, in reality this is not going to be what they all get.
Yes if you are applying to Bath UCL Sheffield etc you need to be a A grade student, you won't get in otherwise
For the others, esp Lincoln etc you will get in with a lot less and some of the courses are in clearing.
My Son is at a non RG uni, however it has an excellent Architecture reputation in the top rankings and he made the grades (BBC) It was his first choice but he actually turned down 3 Unconditional offers!!

IF your daughter has the flare, the passion and dedication required to do a BA in Architecture she will get offers if her portfolio is good enough.
It is a HARD degree, with a lot of self motivation and dedication required as a lot of it is teaching yourself skills, the lecturers leave you to it and you have to deliver the goods which are then critiqued.

Don't aim too low re Universities, if likely to get decent A levels. Look at the university rankings for Architecture. A lot of the non RG are actually better for Architecture and visit a few especially in the North East :-)

Optisight Sun 30-Sep-18 21:45:20

Lincoln call their accredited course BArch and non accredited BA(Hons)

Most other universities are BA (Hons) accredited inc Cambridge (Bsc at some ie Bath)
The BArch is a new thing?

What does she particularly like about Lincoln?

NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 22:33:19

Lincoln will be near her boyfriend which I think is the main draw. hmm

She’s predicted BBB. Has loads of art type experience as goes to a uni weekend art club so lots of stuff for portfolio. Did an EPQ on architecture and got an A. She’s refused to go to any other open days and won’t tell me what other unis she’s putting down on her ucas form.

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NicoAndTheNiners Sun 30-Sep-18 22:34:27

Lincoln want bbc for their accredited course so she should make that.

Thanks for the advice everyone, has been very helpful. Will tell her not to apply for the BA.

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BubblesBuddy Sun 30-Sep-18 22:49:18

Years ago BEng degrees were rare. Most were BSc. Now they are all MEng or BEng. Fashions change.

I think that RIBA conducted a validation visit at Lincoln in 2017. If the courses are identical, then what would be the point in that OP? RIBA’s experts obviously consider that they are not identical in terms of preparing for part 2. Universities want bums on seats. They are marketing to potential students but if they said a non validated course is the same as a validated one, and you just fill in a form for RIBA to let you continue with your studies, they have taken it a step too far. As I said above, the non validated degrees lead to Architectural Technician status. Not fully Chartered Architect status. Just like in Enginerting, there are layers of qualifications. RIBA are trying to uphold the educational status of the profession.

If you had different routes for being a Doctor at the same university (which takes the same amount of time as an Architect) would you be happy with a B route qualified Doctor who hadn’t done the same rigourous course as Route A? Possibly not.

There is usually over supply of Architects. It’s always best to go to best Architecture school you possibly can. I agree with the ones mentioned above but others are highly regarded. I think I would be more persuaded by an ex Poly with a good track record in Architecture and links with Architects rather than a single city or the feel of a university. Getting a job is the main aim and that’s not easy. There are always redundancies when the economic going gets tough. Post Brexit that’s likely.

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