2018 Norrington Table, Oxford

[unusuallaptop]

Any guesses to who the top spots will go to?

When is it likely to be released?

[ClerkMaxwell]

One with higher proportion of science students (easier to get a first) or one of those that do well on university 5th challenge - Oriel?

[goodbyestranger]

DS2 and DS3, who graduated in 2017 and 2018, both with firsts, say why would anyone even post about this? It's of no consequence and since so much teaching happens outside of colleges for so many subjects it's not even a particular accolade to any particular college.

[goodbyestranger]

But science students are also more likely to do worse Clerk - the results are simply more polarised than arts and humanities.

[abilockhart]

DS2 and DS3, who graduated in 2017 and 2018, both with firsts, say why would anyone even post about this? It's of no consequence and since so much teaching happens outside of colleges for so many subjects it's not even a particular accolade to any particular college

My thoughts exactly.

[unusuallaptop]

Absolutely. In reality, it has no effect on the individual. It’s a little like football I suppose. Why do people care who won the world cup?

The ranking of football teams doesn’t mean that the next genertion of players will be remotely related to the current. Importantly though, people are still interested.

[user2222018]

Importantly though, people are still interested.

Decades of experience of studying/working at Oxbridge. I have no interest in the tables, and neither do most of my colleagues/students.

College position has some effect on applications, but this is trivial for colleges that are consistently in the top or middle (already over-subscribed with strong candidates in every subject). I guess colleges who are consistently at the bottom of the table take it a bit more seriously, but I've never heard of table position being a big deal to them either. One of my colleagues at a lower positioned college reckons it actually works in their favour for his subject, as students perceive it will be easier to get in to that college and their application numbers are very strong.

[TheThirdOfHerName]

At the open day this summer, DS2 & I were told that the admissions tutors reshuffle applicants between colleges to even up the numbers before the interview stage.

[BasiliskStare]

Googbye ha ha a friend of the family who has just finished yr 3 of a 4 yr course & stays with us during many holidays is having a sweep between Ds's College and his own for who comes higher up the Norrington table with DH. It is just a laugh. This is is the same spirit as them finding some obscure sports and watching it together so e.g. who is going to win this e.g. curling competition.


More generally Ds's friends college came at the bottom of the Norrington table a couple of years ago and then shot up a bit. He said it made no difference to him as an undergraduate. I am sure it is of interest to some but of all the things DS looked at when applying - that isn't one of them. He subsequently found out his was reasonably solidly middle tier so not brilliant , but he's done OK.

[LoniceraJaponica]

Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things?

A graduate with an Oxford degree usually has the edge over a non Oxford educated graduate. Do employers really look at which college they were at?

[goodbyestranger]

Sometimes college will matter in the fairly tenuous sense that someone looking at CVs will have been at the same place, so there's a connection, and a jumping off point at interview or during a vac scheme or mini pupillage or internship etc.

Some colleges do still have 'big names' but I guess that would matter more to recruiters who were educated in 80s or so who still laboured under the impression that those colleges were decidedly more prestigious because harder to get into than the newer colleges, or the old women's colleges. Not sure I'd like to be recruited by a dinosaur like that though, if I was a young one.

Basilisk yes exactly. Just a messing about friendly rivalry at best. I think.... Queen's will be first this year . Prepared to bet a glass of wine on it :)

[BasiliskStare]

Loncerica - I think I am right in saying that the degree certificate does not mention the college. Of course as Goodbye says if you chance upon someone who went to your college - who knows - but then that can happen with any university.

Goodbye - I am entering you into the Norrington sweep - and you have correctly guessed Queen's is in there - I shall stand the glass of wine for you whichever way it turns out. If you ever wish to enter the who's going to win the curling competition , or similar , be sure it will take place

Seriously I do not think undergraduates bother about this. If you are able in your subject I think you can do very well at any college. ( Other platitudes are available upon request) I assume these tables are important for some people , otherwise why? but for undergraduates, not sure. DS's tutors got the best out of him and they were great.

[abilockhart]

I'll take a punt on St. John's.

[unusuallaptop]

I didn’t realise this would cause such a strong response.

My bet is also St John’s. They got 60 firsts.

[Fifthtimelucky]

@BasiliskStare my daughter's degree certificate came in the post last week and does include the name of the college.

My vote is for Merton. My daughter wasn't there, but had lots of friends who were and they all got firsts.

[goodbyestranger]

I'll stick with Queen's only on the basis that I'm getting wine anyway (thank you Basilisk :)) but 60 firsts at St John's probably does mean that they've bagged top place.

[BasiliskStare]

Fifthtimelucky - you are right and I am wrong - just looked and Ds's certificate does name the college. Won't be the first time I am wrong - won't be the last

I might go with Queen's - they do seem to bounce up and down like zebedee - is it absolute numbers of firsts ( in which case Ds's college , no chance ) or a % of undergraduates ?

Ha ha OP you have rather found a funny thing here.

[HingleMcCringleberry]

BasiliskStare points are awarded for each class of degree, and then expressed as percentage of maximum possible available to the college.

[HesMyLobster]

Thankyou Hingle, I was trying to figure that out too!

[BasiliskStare]

Thank you @HingleMcCringleberry . I suspect Ds's college will still languish mid table , ( well, let's hope that good ) but good to know how it is worked out

So to whom is the Norrington table important ?

[unusuallaptop]

Basilisk, you

[Needmoresleep]

In the past was it useful? For example DH went to an unfashionable smaller college, considered a bit of a nerdy college, which had a reputation for taking in very bright state school pupils. They used to regularly come near the top of the Norrington table..

Now, with a system of redistributing applicants, they don't. Perhaps the table has outlived its usefulness.

[BasiliskStare]

Needmore I suspect you are right - which is why I asked , who apart from laughing on the sofa type people , how does this matter ? I also suspect given the numbers involved , 1 or 2 either way makes a huge difference i.e. the sample size isn't big enough.

Anyhow thanks OP - you've provided a talking point. Not sure Ds will be dreadfully bothered where his college turns up.

unusuallaptop ha ha - fair play

for winner

[magpie64]

The maths students will tell you that many of the differences in rank in the Norrington table are not statistically significant - not meaningful. As someone else said, for an individual student it should not matter. My child just graduated from one of the colleges near the end of this year's table, with an excellent degree, and so isn't concerned at all. Some colleges move around the table with great dynamism from one year to the next, and their general quality does not, I would argue, change with their ranking in the Norrington table.

[horsemadmom]

Magdalen for the win

[goodbyestranger]

www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/undergraduate-degree-classifications?wssl=1