Zero fees for EU nationals attending Scottish Unis

(83 Posts)
Tinkobell Wed 21-Mar-18 09:00:12

I struggle to get my head around this. Scotland have decided that Scottish children get their fees paid for by the government .....fine with that, their choice, democracy etc. If an English kid wants to attend a Scottish Uni....they must pay fees as per south of the border; again, I have no issue. However, if an English person decides to upsticks and go live in France or Spain etc, then they send their child to a Scottish Uni, then fees are completely free....paid for by Scottish government!!!! why is this? Does anyone know? Is it a reciprocal agreement? It feels like a frivolous give-away!

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Needmoresleep Wed 21-Mar-18 09:11:46

EU rules. EU countries can have regional policies within their countries, but must give equal treatment to other EU citizens. Expect a change after Brexit.

SnowJokeAnymore Wed 21-Mar-18 09:24:37

Mad , eh!

I told the kids in my English family not to study in Scotland. It's just too many layers of annoyingness!

SnowJokeAnymore Wed 21-Mar-18 09:26:36

Seriously though. It impacts on how many places are available for Scottish students which is not great. English language is a draw and not a barrier in a non reciprocal way with the rest of the EU.

NotAnotherJaffaCake Wed 21-Mar-18 09:30:17

It's technically a residency requirement, hence it's legal under EU law. It's an absolute disgrace and reflects extremely poorly on the Scottish Government, making them out to be nothing more than anti-English yahoos (Welsh and NI students are exempt).

Tinkobell Wed 21-Mar-18 09:32:46

Ok. So it does get even more annoying. If you look at the websites they are actively and aggressively selling internationally. I get them wanting to take care of their own and Scotland should encourage that, but why give away these places to people who may never have paid a bean into the system.....and let's face it, post-graduation will just bugger off back home!

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NotAnotherJaffaCake Wed 21-Mar-18 09:35:08

It's even more galling when you remember that the original tuition fee legislation, brought in by Tony Blair's government, only passed through Parliament with the votes of Scottish MPs, who knew their constitutents would be unaffected.

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boatyardblues Wed 21-Mar-18 09:36:06

Erm, all ‘rest of UK’ students pay full fees in Scotland. It’s only Scots and EU (non-RUK) who qualify for zero fees.

Tinkobell Wed 21-Mar-18 09:36:57

Ok. So the plan is this. Sell up and go live in a Spanish urbanisation as primary residence. Send DD to Scotland to do 7 year medical degree. Save 9250 x 7 plus the compound 6 percent rip-off interest over 20 odd years ....probably around £100k. She qualifies, goes and works in Australia or anywhere and we all just shaft the system!

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SnowJokeAnymore Wed 21-Mar-18 09:42:47

Tbh if a student in Scotland has to take out the loans for living expenses, then at the end of their life they may well pay the same or more than an English student who took out loans for both fees and living expenses.

This is due to loan payment details being different and the wiping off of the debt.

Speedy85 Wed 21-Mar-18 09:45:48

Ok. So it does get even more annoying. If you look at the websites they are actively and aggressively selling internationally.

Well if you’re coming from eg China or the US then you would have to pay a lot so it makes sense to try and sell it internationally - it’s only if you’re coming from the EU that it’s free.

This is one of the EU rules that really bugged me. I hope things change after Brexit.

NotAnotherJaffaCake Wed 21-Mar-18 09:48:16

boatyardblues I stand corrected. I thought there was a scheme to pay the difference in fees for NI/Welsh students.

Needmoresleep Wed 21-Mar-18 09:50:39

Not charging fees is costing the Scottish Government a lot of money, which they don't have. Expect, post Brexit, some sort of fee regime, and the English blamed.

What can be quite shocking is the way residency requirements seem able to be manipulated, with the children of London based Europeans somehow managing to escape paying fees. Plus the impact seems to have been discouraging Scots from studying in English/RUK or English studying in Scotland. I think the reduced movement will have a longer term impact on UK unity.

S0ph1a Wed 21-Mar-18 09:52:23

It’s a reciprocal agreement.

Scottish students studying in England pay the same as English students studying in Scotland.

French students studying in England pay the same as English students studying in France .

German students studying in Scotland pay the same as Scottish students studying in Germany.

It’s a simple concept and nothing to do with anti English. Sigh.

boboismylove Wed 21-Mar-18 09:53:18

Its reciprocal across the EU. There are plenty of English language masters in Europe that English students can go and do for free.

The England - Scotland thing is a weird anomaly due to the whole constitutional thing. If Scotland was independent and both Scotland and England in the EU, than I guess it would be free for English students too.

BubblesBuddy Wed 21-Mar-18 09:57:48

The result has been fewer Scottish students at university though, whichever way you look at it. The universities need the international students who pay international fees.

SnowJokeAnymore Wed 21-Mar-18 09:59:10

Does anyone have the numbers on non UK EU students in Scotland versus Scottish students in non English EU?

That would be interesting.

SnowJokeAnymore Wed 21-Mar-18 10:00:51

It's ok bubbles they can go get free degrees in the rest of the EU!

SnowJokeAnymore Wed 21-Mar-18 10:01:09

It's reciprocal you see.

Speedy85 Wed 21-Mar-18 10:12:16

It’s a reciprocal agreement.

Scottish students studying in England pay the same as English students studying in Scotland.

French students studying in England pay the same as English students studying in France .

German students studying in Scotland pay the same as Scottish students studying in Germany.

It’s a simple concept and nothing to do with anti English. Sigh.

That’s wrong. That’s not how it works at all. The rules are that universities cannot charge more for students from an EU country than they charge for students from their own country.

So let’s say countries A and B are both in the EU.

Country A decided that it doesn’t want to lumber students with massive debts so offers free university tuition.

Country B has tuitionof £10k per year.

Students from either country can study in Country A for free. Any students who go to study in Country B (whether they are from Country A or Country B) have to pay £10k per year.

So obviously everybody wants to go to Country A and drains their resources.

europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/education/university/fees-and-financial-help/indexamp_en.htm

Needmoresleep Wed 21-Mar-18 10:12:38

"It’s a reciprocal agreement.

Scottish students studying in England pay the same as English students studying in Scotland.

French students studying in England pay the same as English students studying in France .

German students studying in Scotland pay the same as Scottish students studying in Germany.

It’s a simple concept and nothing to do with anti English. Sigh."

This is not true. French students studying in England pay the same as English students studying in ENGLAND. Ditto German students studying in Scotland pay the same as Scottish students studying in SCOTLAND. If an English or Scottish student decides, say to study in the Netherlands, they pay whatever local students are charged.

However WITHIN a country differential fees can be charged, which is what has happened in Scotland for RUK students.

Needmoresleep Wed 21-Mar-18 10:23:26

Bubbles is also wrong. Wanting international students paying higher fees is a different issue. Though perhaps infuenced in Scotland by budget pressures from the fact that so many students are not paying fees at all.

As far as home/EU applicants go, Scottish Universities are legally not allowed to discriminate so have to accept the best applicants. As Scottish Universities, especially the better ranked ones, can be a very good deal for EU students, it is inevitable that EU students have, to some extent, squeezed out Scottish students on the most competitive courses. And it can be easier for RUK students to get places on sought after courses (Edinburgh economics, say) than Scottish students, because they pay fees.

Tinkobell Wed 21-Mar-18 10:24:57

No @SOph1a. A German student studying in Scotland gets fees for free (look at a Uni website to confirm, it's in black & white) whereas a Scottish student in Germany pays fees. That's what sucks.
Also, with central U.K. a government top-up of Scottish revenues aren't tax payers south of the border effectively subsidising the no-fee policy of our EU friends. Blood is boiling!

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Reallycantbebothered Wed 21-Mar-18 10:36:14

Welsh students studying in Scotland have some fees paid ( and also my dcs only paid for 3 of their 4 yrs of MA degree!)

boboismylove Wed 21-Mar-18 10:37:38

@Tinkobell - you don't really seem to get this. As someone said, The rules are that universities cannot charge more for students from an EU country than they charge for students from their own country.

So if a Scottish student went to an EU country with no fees they would also pay no fees.

Again, the Scotland-England thing is a weird anomaly (where English students don't pay the same as Scotts students) cos of the whole constitutional thing. If they were both separate countries in the EU than it would be free for English kids.

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