Do Brexit and Trump alter your views about your DCs studying outside the U.K.?

(26 Posts)
Bobochic Sun 13-Nov-16 11:45:40

Any feelings?

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Needmoresleep Sun 13-Nov-16 11:52:42

As opposed to studying in Europe with a democratic role model like Juncker at the helm?.

Bobochic Sun 13-Nov-16 12:00:22

As opposed to nothing. I just want to know whether parents would have different feelings versus (say) a year ago about supporting their DCs studying outside the U.K.

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Dunlurking Sun 13-Nov-16 16:48:06

Well I'd rather ds didn't spend his year abroad in the US. He's mixed race. On the other hand the Erasmus places will stop the year he's due to have it. My asian dh refuses to ever go back to the US after the way he was treated his last time passing through immigration. It's going to get worse.....

CorkieD Sun 13-Nov-16 17:06:49

I would certainly be a lot more cautious about any decision in the wake of Brexit and Trump. The problem at the moment is the uncertainty. Brexit could probably have a major impact on access and fees.

(Yes, the processes that elected Juncker are a lot more democratic than those that elected May. But what that has to do with studying in or out outside the UK confused.)

GetAHaircutCarl Sun 13-Nov-16 17:07:43

Both my DC are applying to college in the US.

I don't think anyone here in Casa GetAHairCutCarl feels any differently about it.

We're not remotely surprised by the Trump victory TBH.

TinPanAli Sun 13-Nov-16 17:17:44

My DS has watched his cousins do an Erasmus year and has been inspired. He has been learning French to get maximum benefit. LIke a PP I guess our access to that programme will stop the year DS goes to Uni. In the same year the billions from the EU that find the research departments I our RG Unis will stop. Our government will only be able to replace it if the economy is at full strength.

So I feel far less optimistic about the opportunities for DS to study in Europe. I doubt there will be the fee-free opportunity there is to study in Maastricht as there is at the moment.

He is very bright, full of innovation and determination, one of the kinds of young person the country will need in the future, so I hope he fulfils his potential.

We could never have afforded for him to study in the U.S.


user7214743615 Sun 13-Nov-16 17:30:57

I don't think anyone here in Casa GetAHairCutCarl feels any differently about it. We're not remotely surprised by the Trump victory TBH.

Yes, same here.

In terms of higher education, there is not so much variation between Republican and Democratic administrations - and of course the top private universities have such huge endowments that variations in public (research) funding make relatively little difference to them. It's also hard to believe that visa conditions for students from the UK will be changed under a Trump administration. (By contrast we are making it harder and harder for international students to come to the UK.)

No changes to plans here because of Trump but moving from Britain because of Brexit.

GetAHaircutCarl Sun 13-Nov-16 17:33:31

user quite.

Also, in terms of tone, the sad and horribly predictable truth is that rich white students will not feel the brunt of whatever racist backlash takes place in the US.

CorkieD Sun 13-Nov-16 17:39:39

Increase in fees would be the biggest concern for colleges and universities in the US at the moment.

If there is a major downtuen in the number of international students (which is likely) the shortfall will more than likely be passed on in the form of increases in fees. College endowments are for the most part very restricted in their use and cannot be used to allay operational shortfalls due to decreased revenues from international students.

TheDrsDocMartens Sun 13-Nov-16 18:25:15

Dd1 planned to have at least a year abroad if not a degree. She will be the year we are out of the EU so doubt the option will be there. Dd2 would have taken the year too probably.

slightlyglitterbrained Sun 13-Nov-16 18:31:34

Given that DS is 4, and we have no idea how academic he'll be. I guess our best bet for him going to university at all is to move somewhere in Europe so he can get a place as a home student. I can't see fees being anything other than sky high in 15 years time.

AtiaoftheJulii Sun 13-Nov-16 19:35:07

My dd2 is doing an MFL degree and she's worried about her year abroad options being restricted. So I'm worried about her somewhat. More worried about the fact that she wants to work in Europe afterwards - don't want things to be more difficult for her.

user7214743615 Sun 13-Nov-16 19:43:05

Increase in fees would be the biggest concern for colleges and universities in the US at the moment.

There has been enormous pressure on the budgets of public (state) universities for some years already. It's very unclear that Trump's rhetoric about immigrants extends to students from Asia - here in the UK May is so obsessed about cutting immigrants that she's prepared to sacrifice the massive income we get from foreign students (Indian students are down by 50% since 2010) but in reality Trump is likely to be much more pragmatic...

I do agree that visa restrictions causing a drastic drop in international students would be a big issue - in my own subject, a large number of undergraduates are from Asia - but most of my US university colleagues are worried much more about the likely switch away from fundamental research into using public research funding to subsidise R&D of large corporations, and about the likely radical change in climate change/sustainability policies. (And of course worried about many issues outside HE too.)

cannotseeanend Sun 13-Nov-16 20:23:00

Maastricht is not fees free !!!!

CorkieD Sun 13-Nov-16 20:24:49

Thanks user7214743615. In times of great uncertainly like the present, it's very interesting to get other perspectives.

Now that the £9,000 cap has been lifted, fees here in the UK could rise substantially in the coming years.

user7214743615 Sun 13-Nov-16 20:36:27

Now that the £9,000 cap has been lifted, fees here in the UK could rise substantially in the coming years.

Yes and no.

For the top tier of institutions, the fees will indeed have to rise considerably, to make up for the income lost from turning away international students to meet immigration targets, decreasing government funding, decreasing government research funding, loss of EU funding (research and infrastructure) and indeed just to help pay for staff visa costs. [A very significant fraction of research and academic staff are foreign, and this is absolutely essential to maintain - without knowledge exchange between international research groups, you cannot stay at the forefront of research. Visa costs now run at up to 1k per year per staff member.]

At the same time, the government is effectively creating a multi-tier university system via the teaching excellence framework (TEF). Universities in the lower tiers will have their fees frozen, which in real terms means they will decrease. (9k per year in 2016 is already worth far less than it was in 2012.)

BTW if you are funding university via student loans the increase in tuition fees does not make that much difference in the short run - students will still pay the same fraction of their income back, but the tuition fee increase will mean they have to pay for longer/be even less likely to pay it all back. The real issue for many families is the freeze in maintenance loan amounts at a time when student living costs are increasing very rapidly, as the missing money for maintenance needs to be found by families. This is a much bigger problem than tuition fee increases.

Bobochic Sun 13-Nov-16 20:43:52

I would have thought that home students might be deterred from borrowing large sums to pay for tuition fees. I'm not so sure that the repayment going on for longer isn't a deterrent.

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ElizaSchuyler Sun 13-Nov-16 20:48:20

Not so much for study but dd was hoping to look for work in Germany. She'd consider any country but there have always been a lot of opportunities in Germany in the field she wants to go into.

She feels her opportunities will be much more restricted now.

With regards to the US, we are all white straight British in our family but I would be very wary of visiting there if any of us were black, Asian, mixed race or gay.

CorkieD Sun 13-Nov-16 21:16:48

Thanks user7214743615.

GetAHaircutCarl Mon 14-Nov-16 06:54:29

bobo in theory higher tuition fees will deter applicants.

In practice, the national psyche seems to be coming around to accept tuition fees as part and parcel of tertiary education. 9k has not deterred them, though many said it would (obviously on an individual level there will be some applicants who feel they do not want a loan).

I agree with user that the real deterrent will be the gap between the maintainance loan and living costs.

user7214743615 Mon 14-Nov-16 07:44:04

I would be very wary of visiting there if any of us were black, Asian, mixed race or gay.

Immigration procedures from the UK aren't likely to change, and neither are the liberal attitudes in New York City, California etc. Relatively few UK visitors would in case be looking to visit places which are anti-gay rights (deep Southern states etc). Throughout the whole USA there are plenty of non-Caucasians, so people would not stand out by being mixed race/Asian/black anyhow.

9k has not deterred them, though many said it would.

Indeed. Student numbers continue to increase, although not as fast as they might have done had the fees stayed at 3k.

JWIM Mon 14-Nov-16 08:15:36

Regrettably DC currently studying in NY at a very liberal university has already seen and experienced bigotry since the election result, so I am not sure, having that particularly nasty genie let out of it's box, that the US will be as liberal for now.

Bobochic Mon 14-Nov-16 08:24:14

I think that it is quite understandable that, in the short term, the massive fees hike has not deterred students from going to university and incurring huge debts. The DC who have paid £9,000 pa for tuition were born into a world where the expectation was that many more young people were going to go to university but were not going to incur personally the full costs of doing so. A generation doesn't change its plans overnight.

However, when the full impact of incurring university debt begins to be felt, and talked about, things may change.

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GetAHaircutCarl Mon 14-Nov-16 10:06:21

I suspect that certain courses and universities could increase their fees reasonably significantly and still find themselves in demand.

However, there are some courses and universities which might feel the pain. Frankly, some courses are already terrible VFM and just a cynical way to raise cash. If they died through lack of take up, the world would not be a worse place!

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