Classed as EU Applicant by Edinburgh Uni - Why???

(58 Posts)
CambourneMum Thu 18-Aug-16 12:08:47

Has anyone had experience of this? Went on to clearing today and found the perfect course at Edinburgh University. Preliminary to taking details of results etc, DC was asked where he was born (Belgium), and whether parents had worked / lived in an EU country (yes - Belgium). As a result of this, he was told that he would be classified as an EU applicant and that therefore couldn't apply for that perfect course as there was no more room for EU applicants on that course. There was still room for English applicants!

We were stunned because the facts are that DC lived in Belgium for 2 years (age 0-2) and is a British citizen with a British passport, who has lived from 2-18 in England and been completely educated within the English education system. All qualifications are GCSEs and A Levels. Us parents are both British yadda yadda yadda...

This seems bonkers! Is it possible for this to happen or has someone got hold of the wrong end of the stick?

AgentProvocateur Thu 18-Aug-16 12:12:36

If he's been "ordinarily resident" in England for 3 (or 5) years, he should apply as an English student. EU places are limited, as they don't pay fees. English students do, so have different allocation numbers.

GpigsAreGo Thu 18-Aug-16 12:27:55

Thanks for answering Agent. I am the OP, have name changed.

We have literally just had this conversation with the Admissions office and Fees office at Edinburgh. We pointed out that DC is resident in England and has been for the last 16 years. This seemed to make no difference - the verdict was that because DC had 'exercised the right' to live in another EU country 18 years ago applications must be made as an EU applicant.

It seems incredible! But we couldn't continue with the application as they said to us there were no vacancies on the course for EU applicants. It must be a mistake - but don't know what to do about it sad

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 13:32:02

That can't be right confused

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 13:34:19

Try this;

http://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status#layer-5638

GpigsAreGo Thu 18-Aug-16 14:02:16

Thanks, Just5 - the lady at the Fees department already pointed me in the direction of that website, and said that due to these regulations DC cannot apply as an English applicant.

I've tried to understand the rules for Scotland (as the application would be to Edinburgh Uni) - it's very difficult as they are worded as if you want to be a 'home' (EU or Scotland) applicant, and of course we don't want to be that sort of applicant (and indeed aren't).

The lady on the phone was categorical that DC is EU and that's because of the regulations laid out here:

www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/Scotland-fee-status#layer-5489

It is very confusing, the criteria outlined in Number 2 come closest to DC's position, but clearly state that all conditions need to be fulfilled to be considered a 'home' applicant - DC has never been ordinarily resident in Scotland as is specified in point c.

Feeling very cross - I have now spoken to 3 different people at Edinburgh Uni and they are all adamant that DC is an EU applicant and therefore ineligible to apply to the course through clearing as the quota of EU applicants is now full. sad

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 14:17:33

That's really quite mad.

Like some kind of Scottish Nationalist point-scoring.

Has your DS got another plan?

Sadusername Thu 18-Aug-16 14:22:00

Gigs. What would student finance class Dc as? I ask as presumably if they will fund his course to the tune of £9000, then he is an English applicant!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 18-Aug-16 14:24:15

Have you the "Fees and Student Support" team?

Contact details at bottom of this page:
www.ed.ac.uk/student-funding/tuition-fees/fee-status

From the little I have read it sounds as if fee status is based on nationality as well as residence, and from your OP DS sounds Belgian?

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 14:26:18

EU students have access to the £9k tuition fee too Sad, but yes the student finance notification must have either EU or UK status recorded on it.

iKeepDancingintheDark Thu 18-Aug-16 14:26:28

That is absolutely incorrect. He has been ordinarily resident for 16 years - but not for the purpose of receiving education. That clause is designed to prevent kids who live abroad but are sent to British boarding school at 15/16 - they are ordinarily resident in the UK but their main purpose is to receive education, which is clearly not the case with you and your DS as you actually live here as a citizen!

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 14:26:47

tuition fee loan^

GpigsAreGo Thu 18-Aug-16 14:27:08

Yes he has 5Mins but it's such a pity - Edinburgh is a great university and the course is exactly what was wanted. DC's grades are great, it's just the classic case of the first choice uni required an A in one subject - of course, the only B grade was in that subject sad.

Another uni is apparently about to ring back, so fingers crossed..

I'm glad it's not just us who find this 'rule' completely bonkers. Ho hum.. I'd love it if someone in the know could explain it in a way that seemed logical, as right now it's just frustrating - I mean, we want to pay Edinburgh £Xthousand for the privilege, and we're being fobbed off with this. One person I spoke to said if DC wanted to wait til next year, they could apply as a home/EU student and pay very low tuition fees...

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 14:27:41

Why would he be Belgian Fine?

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 14:29:46

* it's just the classic case of the first choice uni required an A in one subject - of course, the only B grade was in that subject*

sad How frustrating.

Have you looked at his student loan notification to see what that says his status is?

EnquiringMingeWantsToKnow Thu 18-Aug-16 14:32:25

TBH if they're so insistent that he's an EU applicant and if he'd get a place then for the sake of 27 grand I'd be awfully tempted to defer grin. Or have I misunderstood?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 18-Aug-16 14:33:18

Why would he be Belgian

Born in Belgium to parents living in Belgium who continued to live there for a couple of years after his birth. Obviously this may not necessarily make the DC Belgian, but if it did that might partially explain the EU vs RUK fee status...

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 14:33:57

One person I spoke to said if DC wanted to wait til next year, they could apply as a home/EU student and pay very low tuition fees...

That is odd. What will change in a year? You've been back home for 16 years, not two.

I'd be kicking up a fuss and getting as many pairs of eyes looking at the status decision as possible TBH. Escalate it.

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 14:36:04

Born in Belgium to parents living in Belgium who continued to live there for a couple of years after his birth. Obviously this may not necessarily make the DC Belgian, but if it did that might partially explain the EU vs RUK fee status...

Born in Belgium but a UK passport holder is British.

(And FWIW I read it that OP and family were expats when the DS was born, but i don't suppose that has any bearing on nationality law considering he's been 'settled' here for 16 years)

EnquiringMingeWantsToKnow Thu 18-Aug-16 14:36:22

It would change in a year because they've got no places left for EU applicants for this year. Not because his status would change.

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 14:38:46

It would change in a year because they've got no places left for EU applicants for this year. Not because his status would change.

But that's not what OP said Enquiring. She said;

One person I spoke to said if DC wanted to wait til next year, they could apply as a home/EU student and pay very low tuition fees...

So someone has said that his status WOULD change for next year. I maintain that that is very odd.

haybott Thu 18-Aug-16 14:38:50

They are talking rubbish. Where he was born is irrelevant, given that he has lived in the UK for 16 years. Threaten them with legal action and they will change their minds!

Just5minswithDacre Thu 18-Aug-16 14:40:18

(And by 'very odd', I mean it sounds plain wrong.)

unweavedrainbow Thu 18-Aug-16 14:51:30

They have got it wrong-he's RUK fees. This is why-most Scottish students qualify for home fees for these reasons:

In order to qualify for ‘home’ fees under this category, you must meet all of the following criteria:
(a) you must be settled in the UK on the relevant date; and
(b) you must be ordinarily resident in Scotland on the relevant date. However, if you are ordinarily resident in Scotland because you moved from elsewhere in the UK and Islands to undertake a course, then you are considered to be ordinarily resident wherever you moved from; and
(c) your ordinary residence in Scotland on the relevant date must not be attributable to / connected with any period of residence in Scotland that was wholly/mainly for the purpose of receiving full-time education within the immediately preceding three-year period; if it is, then you will not be eligible under this category unless you acquired the right of permanent residence in the UK "as a result of residence for full-time education which has led to" this right; and
(d) you must also have been ordinarily resident in the UK and Islands for the full three year period before the relevant date, eg if your course begins in October 2015, the date in (a) above will be 1 August 2015 and you must have been ordinarily resident in the UK and Islands from 1 August 2012 to 31 July 2015; and
(e) the main purpose for your residence in the UK and Islands must not have been to receive full-time education during any part of that three-year period. However, if you have the right of permanent residence you are excluded from this 'main purpose' test, as long as you were ordinarily resident in the EEAand/or Switzerland immediately prior to the five-year period of UK residence which led to you obtaining this right.

Your DS doesn't meet those as he's not Scottish living in Scotland. However:

If you fail to meet (b) and/or (c) but meet all other requirements, you will still be eligible for the middle rate fee of £9000, as long as you are ordinarily resident in the UK on the relevant date.

He's been ordinarily resident in the UK ("settled") for 16 years for he qualifies for RUK fees under those rules.

GpigsAreGo Thu 18-Aug-16 14:51:34

Thanks everyone for your input. We've emailed the College of Engineering and Science admissions dept, plus the fees dept as suggested above by ItsAllGoing. I'm not sure who I can contact apart from them as the fees people I've spoken to in person have been categorical about his status and not up for a chat - understandably, they must be hectically busy at the moment..

Citizenship is definitely British, British passport holder and British resident for the past 16 years! Husband and I also British citizens - Belgian expat stint of nearly 4 years ended in 2000, and since then we've lived in the UK, where DC has attended school from Reception to Year 13.

Not sure if the student loan application will help, as all the first-round unis were in England and they never asked any questions about where DC was born or lived abroad, apart from the bog standard ones about citizenship, resident in UK for last 3 years etc. The minute Edinburgh answered the phone, before any questions about grades, current offers etc. they were asking questions about birth place and living abroad.

Still hanging on to be contacted by other uni... God this is stressful!!

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