Advice needed. problems with joint occupancy student house.

[FANTINE1]

Long story, but in a nutshell, D has been sharing house on a joint occupancy basis all year. She finished her course, end of May and returned home, leaving the others there.
She returned yesterday for the week end to find that her room was in a state of disarray. Not completely trashed, but some damage done to personal belongings, rubbish strewn on the floor, evidence of smoking[tobacco and weed]. Glass on floor. In short signs of partying.
Of course, nobody will own up. Landlady un helpful.
We intend to go tomorrow and pack up her remaining belongings and clean her room again. We will also clean the kitchen and leave it in good, clean condition. When she got back it was vile.
Not surprisingly D does not want to return to the property. Landlady is demanding that all 4 tenants return to the house when the tenancy ends to hand back keys etc, and she wants to make sure that her property is clean etc. I understand this, but we know that at least one of the tenants, who has a history of being very difficult will not attend.
Would we be unreasonable to refuse to go back to the property, and leave the final cleaning to the tenants who have caused the mess. They have all had a part in causing the mess in D's room. There is the question of getting our deposit back, but we are getting to the point where we have just had enough of the situation.
Does anybody have any advice?Long story, but in a nutshell, D has been sharing house on a joint occupancy basis all year. She finished her course, end of May and returned home, leaving the others there.
She returned yesterday for the week end to find that her room was in a state of disarray. Not completely trashed, but some damage done to personal belongings, rubbish strewn on the floor, evidence of smoking[tobacco and weed]. Glass on floor. In short signs of partying.
Of course, nobody will own up. Landlady un helpful.
We intend to go tomorrow and pack up her remaining belongings and clean her room again. We will also clean the kitchen and leave it in good, clean condition. When she got back it was vile.
Not surprisingly D does not want to return to the property. Landlady is demanding that all 4 tenants return to the house when the tenancy ends to hand back keys etc, and she wants to make sure that her property is clean etc. I understand this, but we know that at least one of the tenants, who has a history of being very difficult will not attend.
Would we be unreasonable to refuse to go back to the property, and leave the final cleaning to the tenants who have caused the mess. They have all had a part in causing the mess in D's room. There is the question of getting our deposit back, but we are getting to the point where we have just had enough of the situation.
Does anybody have any advice?Long story, but in a nutshell, D has been sharing house on a joint occupancy basis all year. She finished her course, end of May and returned home, leaving the others there.
She returned yesterday for the week end to find that her room was in a state of disarray. Not completely trashed, but some damage done to personal belongings, rubbish strewn on the floor, evidence of smoking[tobacco and weed]. Glass on floor. In short signs of partying.
Of course, nobody will own up. Landlady un helpful.
We intend to go tomorrow and pack up her remaining belongings and clean her room again. We will also clean the kitchen and leave it in good, clean condition. When she got back it was vile.
Not surprisingly D does not want to return to the property. Landlady is demanding that all 4 tenants return to the house when the tenancy ends to hand back keys etc, and she wants to make sure that her property is clean etc. I understand this, but we know that at least one of the tenants, who has a history of being very difficult will not attend.
Would we be unreasonable to refuse to go back to the property, and leave the final cleaning to the tenants who have caused the mess. They have all had a part in causing the mess in D's room. There is the question of getting our deposit back, but we are getting to the point where we have just had enough of the situation.
Does anybody have any advice?Long story, but in a nutshell, D has been sharing house on a joint occupancy basis all year. She finished her course, end of May and returned home, leaving the others there.
She returned yesterday for the week end to find that her room was in a state of disarray. Not completely trashed, but some damage done to personal belongings, rubbish strewn on the floor, evidence of smoking[tobacco and weed]. Glass on floor. In short signs of partying.
Of course, nobody will own up. Landlady un helpful.
We intend to go tomorrow and pack up her remaining belongings and clean her room again. We will also clean the kitchen and leave it in good, clean condition. When she got back it was vile.
Not surprisingly D does not want to return to the property. Landlady is demanding that all 4 tenants return to the house when the tenancy ends to hand back keys etc, and she wants to make sure that her property is clean etc. I understand this, but we know that at least one of the tenants, who has a history of being very difficult will not attend.
Would we be unreasonable to refuse to go back to the property, and leave the final cleaning to the tenants who have caused the mess. They have all had a part in causing the mess in D's room. There is the question of getting our deposit back, but we are getting to the point where we have just had enough of the situation.
Does anybody have any advice?

[FANTINE1]

Sorry for multiple posting. Don't know what happened.

[circular]

If it's a joint tenancy, then all 4 are jointly responsible.
If you have acted as a guarantor, then you would be responsible for at least DDs share of any damage (I've a quarter) possibly more depending in the wording of the guarantor agreement.
So as well as a loss of deposit, landlady could potentially bill for any damage goung beyond this.
What is there to stop the tenants causing more damage between now and the end of tenancy? In the circumstances, I would want to be there to see what state the property is handed back in.
If the timing is inconvenient and everyone wants to vacate, would it be possible to surrender the property early, same time as you are there to move stuff out, clean etc?

[circular]

IE a quarter

[Theknacktoflying]

The joys of joint tenancy .... when does the lease expire?

Can your daughter not lock her room and stop othwrs using it?

[OvariesBeforeBrovaries]

Why was your DD's room not locked? I'm sure there's rules about being a HMO landlord that the rooms have to be lockable? In our student HMO our doors locked with keypads, it's the same in almost every other student house I know of.

Not a huge amount of advice but poor DD. I'd advise her going to the meeting with her landlord - they'll do anything they can to keep hold of the deposit by and large, and to charge extra, and she doesn't want to give them any excuse to do that.

Honestly what I'd do is when you go tomorrow, clean it up, take pictures with time and date stamp on them, email them to landlady and stick the keys in an envelope and post them through her letterbox (you should have been given her address on the tenancy agreement). You'll still have to pay up until the end of the tenancy, but at least then you've proved that you have tidied etc.

[bojorojo]

Private landlords do not have key pad entry systems for every room in their houses. Doors not usually lockable either. You have to trust your friends and choose them wisely.

My DD had exactly the same problem in a shared university flat where she had no choice of flatmates. It had lockable bedroom doors, but the communal area was trashed after she moved out. She was charged a fortune for repairs. She had nothing to do with the trashing and knew who did it, but she was still charged her share. We cleaned her room very thoroughly and she was charged extra cleaning for that too.

I would think you have no option but to deal with the students/parents who do turn up and tidy up. It is not fair, but she may well lose the deposit. My other DD's landlord charged a cleaning fee after the parental clean up, but it was only £15 per student, so reasonable. Are you really able to clean the oven etc to a high standard?

I think the lesson is: choose flatmates wisely.

[whatwouldrondo]

I think that houses with lockable doors fall under another category of tenancy, one not so favourable to Landlords. We were refused permission to fit locks when one tenant walked out of DDs flat and we had to negotiate arrangements for a replacement tenant. That tenant stopped paying rent immediately and knowing that they and the mother would be hard to recover the money from (they were given to long ranty unhinged phone calls and emails and both we and the landlord were aware we were not the first in the queae of creditors) the landlord demanded it from the remaining parent guarantors. Although it depends on the wording generally they ensure they can recover rent and damages from whomever it is easiest to amongst the tenants and their guarantors . That left us as the ones persuing legal action against the tenant (it ended up a substantial sum - the rent for the remaining five months of the tenancy because a suitable replacement could not be found given that it had to be a student for Council tax reasons and it was late in the university year and with no locks it had to be someone the remaining tenants could trust) though in the end the university conciliation service resolved the situation by giving them a reality check with proper legal advice, and threatening disciplinary action with the ultimate threat of including the whole incident on their reference or even not awarding their degree at all (there is more to the story than is relevant, behaviour that took place on campus and so became the subject of the university disciplinary process.)

If you feel you have a serious dispute with the other tenants then can you involve the university conciliation service? It is precisely what they are there for. However I agree with others that to avoid potential costs you need to agree with the other tenants that they must do their share of the cleaning up even if they are not there for the final handover, and be there to ensure everything is in order when keys are handed over. Apart from anything else Landlords often try and inflate the amounts they take from deposits for cleaning damage etc and we have frequently negotiated them down. You could use the threat of the conciliation service or even small claims court to recover your share of any cleaning costs as a result of them not leaving their areas clean? No idea if you could take it to court but it would show you are not putting up with them continuing to take the piss.

[whatwouldrondo]

In my DDs most recent move out the landlord had provided a fully illustrated guide to the standard of cleaning that was unacceptable /acceptable for everything in the house, not sure my normal standard of cleaning would have passed muster never mind the average student. Wiping around the rubber rim of the washing machine? I am not sure you can relie on the average student to clean the rim of the loo They managed to pass though