Could a uni offer a deferred place on results day?

[cruusshed]

Does this ever happen? If you have an offer but just miss the grades by a mark could they offer a deferred place for the following year if they were full this year?

Or would you have to reapply (and maybe resit) through the whole process again?

It seems tough to have the spend the whole year on a resit to bump up one grade, rather than do something more productive. Was better in the old days when you could resit in Jan....

[Batavias]

You normally have to reapply.

[LIZS]

I think they'd just reject unless they were going to Clearing. From the talks we've attended it is always worth getting dc to call them if you miss a grade.

[Decorhate]

I do know someone who was offered a deferred place on results day from their favourite (can't remember if they had an offer from there originally but I know they didn't get their predicted grades). In the end they went to somewhere else through clearing as they decided against a gap year

[disquit2]

Does this ever happen? If you have an offer but just miss the grades by a mark could they offer a deferred place for the following year if they were full this year?

You would be better off naming the specific subject and universities, as answers will vary considerably according to these.

I don't know the answers for the subject of interest (architecture).

However, in general, courses do not have rigid limits on numbers of students. Apart from subjects such as medicine or subjects involving a lot of lab time, courses are very rarely so full they could not take one more student. So the decisions on missed grades are based on what courses are willing to accept.
In my own subject universities would either accept the student for that year or reject: they wouldn't offer a deferred place to a student with lower grades for the following year (when they might hope to get better qualified students the following year).

If a course is unwilling to take students with a dropped grade, they will reject. One can then get feedback about whether the course will re-offer the following year following re-takes. As mentioned above, in subjects which interview (or e.g. look at portfolios), they may well waive the re-interview if they give the go ahead to applying again.

[Foginthehills]

In my department, we generally would be OK about a deferral IF the candidate had made our offer.

If they hadn't made the offer, we'd be unlikely to relax the grades for a deferral, because we'd reckon on being able to recruit better candidates in the following year. But we have about 10 applicants per place.

[cruusshed]

Thanks all. Manchester and Liverpool are his choices for architecture which I understand are oversubscribed. Looks like it is fingers crossed that they tak him on a dropped grade - he has AAA from each but has had an Art course work back and now v unlikely he will get an A in that. If rejected with AAB he plans to take year out and reapply - maybe they would waive the additional portfolio request as he has passed it this year. It would be hard to retake the 2 year 100% course work Art A level in one year ... might be more productive if he spent the year doing an Art Foundation which is a higher qualification....

[FoolsAndJesters]

You or your DS could think about phoning the department or the admissions and asking. I know other people wouldn't but I can't see what he has got to loose. We have always found University staff to be helpful. I think it's luck who you speak to but we have had some great advice.

Is there any chance he might get an A* in another subject to offset the lower grade in hid Art?

[bojorojo]

I think it is interesting, cruushed, that Manchester even mention clearing for Architecture on their web site. This rather indicates they may regularly have places, although there is a warning they may not! The problem is whether they are prepared to accept lower grades for entry.

Lots of university courses are oversubscribed, but that does not mean that all the students who apply want to go there. Your DS does not want his other two choices for example. They may well be oversubscribed, but he will not take up a place there. They could end up not being full with firmed students.

I think there is also a move for universitites to want students with AAB, so they may be flexible. It seems very difficult to find out if either of these universities put architecture into clearing and whether they lowered grades.

Art foundation courses tend to be designed to let students explore lots of art mediums but I do know they are excellent for portfolio preparation and this would be useful. Some architecture courses look more closely at portfolio work BUT you need to know if the portfolio and the Art Foundation will be accepted instead of the A grade at A level Art as part of the offer. Why dont you ring the admissions at both the preferred univrsities and see what they say? You have nothing to lose really. Or, what about an Architecture HNC? It is possible to transfer onto a degree course after this. These courses are more directly relevant.

[cruusshed]

Yes there is an outside chance that he could pull off an A* in one of the other subjects so maybe that should be the focus...re apportion the time he dedicates to art to the other subject.

I understand that Liverpool and Manchester have had architecture places in clearing but I am not sure what this tells me exactly ... maybe that they are rejecting those who firmed & insured and did not make AAA? ... or maybe lots of people insure them and then make and take their firm. Both are top 15 but not top 5 (Cambridge, UCL, Bath, Edinburgh, Sheffield, Cardiff are).

I think I need to make the call - there are many moving parts here and we need to take action to plan/apply for contingency options.

Is it really important to track down and speak directly to the departmental admissions tutor rather than whoever picks up the phone in the dept?

Is it a negative for parent to call rather than student? Would it be important to identify him - or could I just make a general enquiry?

[bojorojo]

I can honestly say I did not ring a university for my DDs.

However, my gut reaction would be the Admissions' Tutor's Office for Architecture. I feel there is a need to speak to someone who has some grasp of the detail. I don't think you need give a name, but at this stage it may as well be you. They have made the offer; they will not take that away. The places on the courses will be subject to all the possibilities you mention above so admissions cannot be tied down to precise answers at this moment in time one would imagine. They will not know who will come as an insured place for example. They will be starting to see their firmed picture, but not yet be sure what it looks like. I am not sure how well architecture courses are doing for numbers. Job prospects were dire in the slow-down in the building industry. Did this affect student numbers? Or, did universities not in the top 5 just keep recruiting regardless?

You can ask more general questions to help you plan. For example, what value is the Foundation Course in Art? Would it replace the A grade A level in Art? How would they view HNC in Architecture together with his A levels? (Some of this may be on their website). Would they take an A* in another subject in lieu of an A in Art? They may not be able to assess this until results day but they may know if they often do this. If their contextual offer is lower, (usually it is, but check) do they ever accept other students with those grades?

Good luck. It is very difficult to judge what to do. I definitely would start investigating other courses but hopefully he will get straight onto the degree. Interestingly the Guardian likes Northumbria for Architecture!

Manchester gave an AAB offer to my DD for MFL, but on offer day they said ring them up if she did not make the grades. The tutor said she couldn't care less what the third grade was! MFL students are in short supply. Has he got an offer day yet? That may also be an opportunity to talk things over. Go wth him and grab a tutor!

[cruusshed]

Thanks boj - I have no idea if the course numbers dropped throughout the recession but anyone who works in construction is aware of the boom bust cycles and the last one was nothing new....worse for those just graduating/doing MArch post grads at the time that those just entering uni I would imagine.

He has a low offer from Northumbria as well - it stands out as a great non RG course - but we are realistic - 50% of arch BSc/BA graduates choose not to continue - and my thoughts are that he would be better placed with a degree from a Manchester or Liverpool if he chose not to continue with the profession.

If their contextual offer is lower, (usually it is, but check) do they ever accept other students with those grades?

what is a contextual offer?

[LIZS]

A contextual offer is one made to a student who for some reason, usually location/school or college, is deemed at a disadvantage compared to the majority of applicants. Hence the standard offer may be modified to give them an opportunity which might otherwise be beyond reach.

[FoolsAndJesters]

Well done Bojo for not having called on your DCs behalf. I know that it's disapproved of by MN but in my kids case it was useful for me to call. I've four DC in Uni and I have a much better grasp on the finer points of admissions than my DC. Fortunately no one that I spoke to at the universities seemed to mind in the slightest, in fact, they couldn't have been more pleasant.

Would it shock you to learn I even spoke direct to a university on results day. My DD went into ADJUSTMENT and was being given duff advice by the Uni she was 'upgrading' to so i stepped in to explain the process to them. (Very nicely obviously ). If I hadn't my DD was going to get treated as a 'clearing' applicant.

OP, I wouldn't hesitate about calling. Your DS should do it if he's clued up about what to ask and you can do it if you think you will get more information out of them. It's luck of the draw as to how helpful the person you speak to will be but I think it's worth a shot.

Have you looked on the StudentRoom to see if there are any posts from last years applicants for these courses?

[cruusshed]

LIZS thanks for explaining.

FoolsAndJesters - thanks for your post - there are quite a few complex bits of info to uncover if he did make the call directly at this point so that he could go on make an informed decision on which of his identical offers to firm, and then also to formulate plan B ie can he re-apply for 2017 - do they take re-sits, would they pref an Art Foundation over an A level retake etc .

.. the first part they obviously cant give definitive answers to - so he would need to pick up on nuances and steer the conversation etc .... I feel I would be better able to the info he needs to make his decisions....and although I really want him to make the calls, I dont want him to miss an important detail....

so I will make the calls!! despite school gate Mums telling me that he will have a black mark/be struck off/be disadvantaged if a parent calls for info...(urban myth?)

[cruusshed]

FoolsAndJesters - could he email? Or do you think that you get more info verbally rather than them having to commit to paper?

[FoolsAndJesters]

If I was you I think I would call myself. My DC are articulate and confident but I just seemed to get more information out of the calls than they did.

I also think that we got more info out of making phone calls than we would have out of emails but who knows.

There are admissions staff on MN who frown on parents making calls but I honestly never had an issue. I thought that one of my DCs would drop a grade and as he was really stressing about it I offered to call the department and ask what was likely to happen. (Top end RG Uni MN approved ) We talked 'hypothetically' and the guy (a lecturer) couldn't have been more reassuring and positive. DS did drop a grade and did get in.

I think I'm making it sound like I was never off the phone but it wasn't like that. .

I also found that applicant days or open days could be really useful. The DC would obviously go their own way and while I didn't go to any of talks for the parents (too dull and sales pitch'y) I did have some great random chats with lecturers or students in passing.

[cruusshed]

Thanks Fools - I will do that ... he is in the middle of mocks - so that is where his head needs to be - he just needs some hypothetical info so that we can make decisions on who to firm etc ... dont see why it is a problem for me to source this ... none of the info is personal etc.

[FoolsAndJesters]

Good luck. I hope it all works out for your DS.

It sounds like an interesting course.