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disappointed mum

(42 Posts)
clementina25 Sun 13-Oct-13 22:14:03

Dd in 6th year at Scottish state school, already has 5 As in Highers and 1 A at Advanced Higher. Sitting 2 more highers and 2 more advanced highers this year. Has decided not to apply to Oxford for a number of reasons. But had she thought about it earlier and visited she might have done. Will hopefully get into St Andrews - studying Physics. I can't help feeling really disappointed. Feel cross that Scottish students from state schools have a huge hurdle to overcome - do they try for oxbridge when it would mean shelling out £27-£36K more for a degree than if the go to a Scottish university? I worry that she will not be seen as so good as those who go to oxbridge. Hopefully someone can cheer me up.

AMumInScotland Mon 14-Oct-13 14:31:30

Oh and the fees thing. I know it is a pain, and I do feel for you. But you have to understand the problem came in because England moved the goalposts and did away with grants for fees. Scotland did not cause this problem. They just didn't copy England in being shitty to students who are based there.

IHaveA Mon 14-Oct-13 18:16:51

RawCoconutMacaroon. I didn't realise that Scottish students are not eligible for Scottish clearing. There is an interesting article about it HERE. That would be really irritating. I wonder if Scottish students are allowed to apply for the places in clearing IF they pay the fees imposed on English candidates? If they were, they wouldn't be 'disadvantaged', however they would no longer be 'advantaged' grin

Hmm, I am not clever enough to argue the case for who pays for Scottish Students to have free university education but I don't think its a simple case of the money coming from Scottish tax payers. I know that in the context of devolution that Scotland manages its own education spending...(however, they do get a few billions and billions bob from Westminster. and this budget is payed for by the whole of the UK shock )
I don't think the money for education is from Scottish tax payers although it is from the Scottish budget. (I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong smile. I think this is an interesting subject.

I still think Scottish Students with 'disappointing' results sad would still have an advantage if they were applying to English universities but only so far as they would be able to research their options ahead of A'level Results day.

RawCoconutMacaroon Mon 14-Oct-13 20:25:52

Well yes I suppose the money is from the pot allocated to devolved Scotland but that is money which not then available for us to spend on other things... That pot of money is (in effect) the Scottish government getting handed back the taxes that have been collected centrally - to my mind anyway, although that's a gross simplification smile, and there are arguments and counter arguments about which countries within the uk are paying their way that could go on all night grin!

RawCoconutMacaroon Mon 14-Oct-13 20:31:56

And, interesting article, but missing the real issue - and that's eu students in huge number applying for places in Scottish unis because there are no fees - hence the cap on numbers of "Scottish" students (which must also include eu students as equals).

IHaveA Mon 14-Oct-13 21:30:19

It looks like it may end up with Scotland and England all charging the same anyhow. I think it would be a good thing if it prevented the influx of EU students into Scottish Uni's

RawCoconutMacaroon Mon 14-Oct-13 21:39:34

I think so.

Of course people from anywhere should be free to apply to the universities of any country they chose - but paying international fees, not home fees(or no fees!).

clementina25 Tue 15-Oct-13 23:38:13

Well that unleashed an interesting collection of responses. Thanks for helping me look at things with a bit more perspective. Of course I am immensely proud of dd. I think the fees situation in England is hellish and the policy is hugely short sighted (or maybe it is designed to keep higher education for the rich few). She did higher art in 4th year and advanced higher art in 5th year. She had to do much if the studying for the higher on her own due to time tabling but the advanced higher was fine. I think that the curriculum for excellence should allow able pupils to take highers early as the senior phase is supposed to be more flexible.

RawCoconutMacaroon Wed 16-Oct-13 07:51:37

Curriculum for excellence... Don't get me started on that, I predict an absolute mess for the next few years while they sort it out.
I've been telling people about the implications of the "no externally marked exams" for the less academic, and the disintegration of a country wide frame work for the "normal" number of exams and the year they are "normally" sat.
How will universities (and employers) actually be able to compare the results of young people?

Sigh, so glad ds3 is was in the last year to do SG last year, as DS4 is so young any issues will be ironed out before he gets to that stage!

Sorry, thread hijack, it all seems to be such a muddle with school not even being given info about what they should teach until well into the term sad.

2rebecca Wed 16-Oct-13 10:13:29

My son considered Oxbridge and decided it wasn't worth it, both due to the tuition fee money and complexity of the admissions procedure. Scottish unis have as good employment statistics and student satisfaction for his course anyway. If he decides to study further postgrad he may consider England and Oxbridge.
I agree with unfairness of our taxes supporting EU students to come here. I'm generally pro EU but think that if they come to our universities their countries should pay not ours, same if Scottish kids go abroad, the Scottish government should pay.
I also think tertiary education just like primary and secondary should give preference to students from that country.

moralimbecile Wed 16-Oct-13 10:22:33

Edinburgh is a better university than Oxford or Cambridge, according to the times university guide, although this was a few years ago.

Sadly, Edinburgh is "only" a Scottish university though, so will never be seen to be as good as it's English counterparts. hmm

Prince William studied at St Andrews. Can't be that bad can it?

2rebecca Wed 16-Oct-13 10:33:24

I also think that with league tables alot of weighting is given to universities requiring high grades for entrance and doing alot of research. These don't necessarily give you any advantage as an undergrad so some universities lower down may be just as good if not better.
For some degrees local connections with industry etc count for alot as well.

Almostfifty Wed 06-Nov-13 22:02:17

Not all candidates with amazing Highers and Advanced Highers get into St Andrews either. Be warned.

happyyonisleepyyoni Wed 06-Nov-13 22:07:12

If your DD really wants to go to Oxford could she not take a year off and apply then. If it's just you, you need to get over it and support her in what she does want to do.

prettybird Wed 06-Nov-13 22:22:23

Your job as a mum is to support her as she makes her own choices. I hope you're letting off steam here and not letting her know you are disappointed hmm

She's done brilliantly in her exams and sounds like she is being very sensible and pragmatic in her choices about where to go.

I loved St Andrews (did French/Economics having gone there to do French/Russian) and got a good job on in the milk round with a top chemical manufacturing company as a senior management trainee albeit a loooooong time ago blushgrin

Don't live your own dreams through your daughter and be grateful she is clear about what she wants to do. smile

steeking Wed 06-Nov-13 22:27:46

Rawcoconut i couldn't agree more. Where we live pupils are being restricted to 6 subjects in 4th year. The Scottish government thinks it's ok to get qualifications gradually in 5th and 6th year but the unis have said they need the grades in one sitting to prove ability . It's going to totally disadvantage Scottish students and they just can't see it. No wonder it's been likened to the emperor s new clothes. I wrote to the education minister about the limited 4th year subjects and was told that pupils would be filling the rest of their timetable with voluntary work and working on their cvs . wtf !!!

prettybird Wed 06-Nov-13 22:31:19

Oh - and I went from 5th Year and never ever felt that I was disadvantaged by not going to Oxbridge. I made a conscious choice not to do a 6th Year and in doing so not give myself the option of applying to Oxbridge.

littlesquid Sat 09-Nov-13 10:29:02

We are English, DD is at Oxford.

One of her other offers was Edinburgh, and in the end,, although she loves the city, she turned that down because she thought (and I agreed) it would be very bitterness-making to be paying £36k and sitting in lectures next to Scottish students who were getting the same education for free.

If we'd been Scottish, though... I think she would have seriously considered Edinburgh over her Oxford offer - in fact, she would probably have applied to St. Andy's over Oxford in the first place, so as to not have such a dilemma.

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