The best pre-school environment to encourage and further learning for a gifted child?

[notanotherunicorn]

I am trying to decide on the right preschool environment for my possibly gifted or at least bright dd. She seems more like a reception child than a pre-schooler, though I would not want her in school full time (!). I do not want her to be bored, frustrated, or turned off from education early on. I want her to get as much out of the pre-school experience as possible and for it to move her on to HER next stage of learning, for her to continue to learn organically beyond what she already knows in the time she spends there since she will be spending less time learning at home. I worry she will be one of the oldest in the nursery by both birth date and developmental stage. I have observed that she strongly prefers the company of older children and enjoys learning from them but this won't be available in a pre-school where she will be one of the eldest. I am a little worried she may be there for 3 days a week doing things she knows in and out, playing games that are not as engaging to her and that she will not be sufficiently challenged by and may even be 'dumbed down' if that's actually a rational concern? I'm also wondering a little about whether it would be value for money if she is not gaining anything from it as I work from home already and this would be a cost and not give me any economic benefit. I imagine preschool offers the opportunity to socialise with children beyond play dates and family, foster greater independence and prepare her for a school environment, however I would also like it to be adding some more educational value than what she can get at home or at least as much educational value. I don't want her to have to repeat things she already knows or be forced to conform to specific methods or one size fits all learning, if she can do it, she can do it.

She fits a pattern of other family members who remained able learners but of course there is the possibility she may average out over the next few years. I believe that whatever we choose now for maximum educational enrichment value will not disadvantage her if she does.

I am wondering if there is any advantage in choosing a pre-school on the site of a school? I would imagine one that has a qualified teacher in the nursery is beneficial? Is there more chance that they will notice she is able and be able to better differentiate her learning? Can they actually differentiate work in preschool? Is it necessary? How do I broach this topic to schools without sounding like a pushy mother with an overinflated idea of her child's abilities?

Our options are to: Not send her until reception when work is (hopefully) differentiated more than I imagine it to be in pre-school. Or move house closer to a small village school with mixed age classes (preschool in with reception so she has access to more challenging work rather than doing things she already can, ditto for year 1 and 2). Send her to a local private school where at least she will learn french and they claim to move the curriculum along more quickly but I can't see why their nursery would be any better able to stretch her than a state one if it is separate from the reception class? Or am I wrong to think this?

Do any of these options tend to prove better than others for bright/gifted children? Or is it down to the individual school? Is there an element of trial and error? I want her to have the best start and I am quite worried about making the wrong choice for her.

Her health visitor was the first to use the term gifted. I admit she does seem a lot more able than her sibling at that age but her sibling has now been diagnosed with severe dyslexia and aspergers and academics have been a struggle on the whole. Part of my hesitancy around choosing a preschool/school is that this was not picked up on for many years leading to a lot of problems down the line so I am very keen to find the right school for this one if she also needs more of an individual education plan to reach her potential albeit for a different reason.

To explain what I suppose might be gifted and why I am concerned about the preschool 'curriculum' not being stimulating enough: She is nearly 3.5 years and can write her name (it is a long name), she can read simple first reader books; she reads using both phonics to decode and sight words. She knows the entire alphabet and their phonetic sounds etc. She can spell small words phonetically if asked, so if I ask her 'how do you spell car' she will sound it out and tell me the letters. She can use this method to write words phonetically, although not always correctly and sometimes quite creatively depending on the word involved; she started doing this for fun by writing letters to her toys etc. She can do addition: 2 buttons + 2 buttons = 4, 3 sheep + 3 sheep = 6 etc in her head without fingers or prompts, and taking away also (although small numbers, not 15 + 25!). She can count objects accurately regardless of how many there are. She can count backwards from 10 and count to 100. She can tell the time to the hour, half past, quarter past and quarter to. She knows all the days of the week and usually knows what the day is or works it out from what yesterday was. She can do 150+ puzzles with small pieces (all in one sitting). She can play board games properly. She can do sorting puzzles quicker than her older sibling. She almost always jumps to the right conclusion about observed situations. She rarely says 'nonsense' and is very logical. When she watches movies her comprehension is excellent. She is also a word hoover and uses words like 'horrendous' or 'astonishing' appropriately, when she feels like it, although her speech is not perfect and adult like, she makes normal child-like grammatical errors here or there but I would assume she was a year or two older if she wasn't my own. She also makes jokes and uses rhyme humorously, puns I suppose, and enjoys pointing out amusing connections between something she is experiencing/observing and has seen and read (We see a deer in a field and she recites a silly poem about a deer we read in a book some weeks before and falls about laughing). She is highly imaginative and will engage in extended imaginative play enacting her own stories, not just copying, sometimes with great commitment, though I think this may be fairly normal for non aspie 3 year olds. She asks lots of questions and obviously thinks about things i.e "what happens when I die? Will I be buried in the ground?" Amusingly, when I suggested part of us may go somewhere else she replied, "that's nonsense mummy." I suppose she picked up on my lack of definitive phrasing and also perhaps it does not fit with her observations of the world around her, so I'm not sure how well she grasps very abstract concepts yet.

I am also loathe to mention to teachers that dd can do these things, partly because she may be less forward in a school environment and I don't want any pressure on her to perform unless and when she wants to, partly because I worry they will think I am just a pushy delusional mother and because I worry they may actively look for evidence that she isn't as able as I claim because that is easier to teach, particularly if she doesn't want to perform on occasion. Her sibling's experience has made me very wary of mainstream education and claimed expertise that is sometimes lacking. I also have family members like dd who did very well getting to leading universities and careers that furthered their interests by virtue of their innate intelligence when the schools they attended were full of 'can't do' low aspirations (I know they are not all like this!) and seemed hell bent on turning them into plumbers and hairdressers despite obvious potential. I would therefore rather they work out for themselves that she is quite able for her age than have to spend years arguing why another of my children deserves special treatment. Hopefully this isn't unrealistic. I am hoping that a genuinely good school, the right school, will notice and differentiate, or that in the right sort of school (i.e small with mixed age groups) she will be naturally enabled to choose where she fits and engage in more challenging work if she wants to. I do not want her to be bored or frustrated.

[notanotherunicorn]

by 'sorting puzzles' I don't mean putting shapes in holes, I mean games where you have a pattern or arrangement of shapes to configure on a board and have multiple steps involving moving other pieces around to get the right pattern. We bought these logic games for her older sibling to help with her problem solving but dd2 fell in love with them and finishes them before her older sibling.

[madwoman1ntheattic]

I just put mine in the most convenient nursery. They were all fine.
(One had sorted multiplication by 3, one was reading the lion the witch and the wardrobe at 2.)
They changed settings frequently as we were a military family and moved a lot. (The youngest was assessed as reading comprehension of 12-15 in yr r, and working around 7 years ahead across the board in y1) Each of them just went to the local state school wherever we were.
You are way overthinking this. Nursery and school is about getting on with other children. They can read war and peace and teach themselves calculus at 6 if they want to.
Don’t start hunting down problems and disappearing down the hoagies route now. Deal with anything that comes up and unclench a bit.

[madwoman1ntheattic]

(She taught herself to read. We actually didn’t know she could.)

[notanotherunicorn]

She also changes poems and rhymes to suit herself, inserting words for amusing affect and changes the names of family members she into something amusing that sounds similar to their real name i.e 'alfigator,' or just alligator. I thought this sort teasing and word play started later but I may be naive.
I said, "Come on let's go on a frog hunt,"
She quips, "We are going to catch a big one, I'm not scared!"
However, I do not spend much time with many other 3 year olds so I am not sure how to distinguish between one that is bright and one that is potentially gifted, but I would probably want an encouraging learning environment ready for the next stage of learning for either.

I'm just not sure to what extent she needs a differentiated learning environment at this stage and how best to find it.

[notanotherunicorn]

I'm not sure mine is quite as gifted as yours madwoman1ntheattic which is probably why I'm fretting a bit more! But yes, maybe you are right, I should just relax a bit and assume innate ability will see through.

[WinWinnieTheWay]

Watch Parenthood.

I think that as your DD is so advanced, she might benefit from just playing, having fun and hanging out with other children. She will not be little for very long.

[VashtaNerada]

I actually don’t think it’s possible to be bored by the Early Years Foundation Stage! The whole point is that it’s child-led learning, so your child gets to explore different things and choose what interests them. Even a very gifted child will have elements of their development that still need work (motor skills, socialisation etc). Any nursery setting will get them ready for school by practising independence, turn-taking etc. If she really is very bright staff will also enjoy exploring the academic side with her. They’ll be happy to listen to her read and to extend any planned maths and literacy tasks if it becomes clear she’s finding it easy. I wouldn’t overthink it.

[madwoman1ntheattic]

I love kids. They are brilliant. Mine memorized the julia Donaldson books and marched round the house in time with rhythms word substitution is funny it’s fab - they get an innate sense of rhyme and rhythm and humour.

[locked2020]

My DD is similar. She goes to an outstanding rated school. Extension activities include writing to number 15 instead of 10 etc which doesn't stretch her, she may change reading books more frequently but is still sent home with are what she could do in preschool, she may be asked to count a little bit further if they are e.g. counting in twos. It seems brighter kids are not challenged and just have to wait for others to catch up. We may go private, but I also want her to be a kid and the private schools round here throw a hell of a lot of homework at primary school kids which I think is hard after a long day at school.

[EmperorCovidula]

Some private schools are very pushy with their preschool class. They’re selective and only take children who are developmentally ahead. A different option may be Montessori. My son was doing year one work in nursery in an area that he was interested in but without being pushed into other things that he wasn’t ready for.

[HuaShan]

Remember pre school and Early Years are about more than academics. DS was never bored at that age. I remember him coming home and having a very serious conversation with me about how he had been working on his 'motor skills' at nursery that day. Vashta is right, the teachers will enjoy exploring things with her and it's more important she learns to love a school environment.

[JustRichmal]

I too second Montessori schools. I would also consider other groups or playparks (once lockdown is lifted) where she can mix with others in different environments.

Most children prefer to mix with those slightly older than themselves; I think it is just an aspirational thing. However, it is important that they develop the ability to socialise in their own peer group. In my opinion, nursery or mums and toddler groups are vital for this.

You have a choice either to keep on teaching her the sort of things she will be learning at school, in which case she will be ahead, or to teach her things like musical instruments or languages. Learning potential is a potential to learn, which involves education. For a child to learn to their full potential, they need to be taught to their full potential. However, somewhere between not doing anything and hothousing, there is a balance. It is a balance with other abilities they need to develop. Building social skills, building creative imagination through play and just having time to daydream are as important as building academic ability. Look at nursery as building other important skills.

I chose to teach dd reading and maths before she started school. She did end up ahead and it was a problem in primary. However, others on this forum have not had problems and have found schools which can differentiate well.

[crazychemist]

I think you’re overthinking it. Her reading/maths sounds quite similar to my DD. I chose a preschool attached to a school for two reasons - her preschool teacher borrow books for her from reception/Y1 classrooms (helpful, as she doesn’t always like repetition so having a source of new books is handy!) and also because they do some activities with older year groups (they do Forest school with the reception class, which is 2 years above my DD, they have break/lunchtime with them too, and there are whole school assemblies). It also means she is sort of known to the reception teacher, so if her reading etc continues to go at current pace, the teacher will be aware of this when she starts reception.

BUT I don’t really think of preschool as an academic exercise. She reads words on the wall etc (words are everywhere!), but I think it’s really about developing social skills and independence. She can always read at home, but I can’t provide her with 15 kids of her own age to negotiate with! They also do a LOT of physical activities I couldn’t really do at home, and a lot of crafts.

[SandieCheeks]

Sorry, I didn't read your whole post as it was very long!

I would choose a very unstructured pre-school - very little in the way of planned or adult-led activities and lots of child initiated play.

Look for somewhere that follows "In The Moment" planning.

Staff qualification is a big indicator of quality so somewhere that has graduate staff rather than lots of apprentices and trainees, but that doesn't necessarily need to be a school nursery.

[Dowermouse]

If you have the means to continue on that path I'd send her to a private school nursery.
With my dd I dropped lucky and she went to the local little play group /preschool and as they had a larger than average cohort of 3/4 year olds they gave the staff extra training and her brain got the work it needed. She also had to go to DSs nursery, whick although was rated outstanding and the preschool leader was level 7, she found very boring and repetitive.
She finished Early Years with level 3s throughout, but her school doesn't "go above curriculum level" which I think was starting to cause problems.
I couldn't read the whole op, I'm not as bright as dd.

[lanthanum]

Mine was reading pretty fluently (any picture book) at 3.5, and was quite happy in the local voluntary pre-school, where she enjoyed digging in the mud. She said she didn't want to read to her key-worker, so although I'd told them she could read, they didn't get any evidence until they spotted her reading to her cuddly toy! She was developing her social skills at pre-school, and we made very good use of the library to keep her fed with new books.

Having said that, she was an August birthday; had she been a September birthday, I'm not sure the pre-school would have kept her entertained for another year. I would probably have put her in for slightly fewer sessions, and got her learning a language or a musical instrument, I think. I don't think I would have gone hunting for a more academic nursery; I think a child-initiated approach makes much more sense at this age. They've got years to "reach their potential", and as long as they're happy and encouraged, they'll be learning.

[modemeanmedian]

Mine went to the nursery in a small prep school, where they had the time and staff ratios to cater to individual dc's learning abilities. He isn't a child genius, but he is working about 3+ years ahead of his age. There was some pressure to move him up a year, but we decided against it as we didn't feel it was in his interests long term.

[Justajot]

My DD was a bright, oldest in the year preschooler. Her nursery was great with her. The key thing was the staff. They had high staffing ratios and a real mix of staff including degree level qualified, a qualified teacher and some really experienced staff. The opposite of a "pile them high" nursery. They embraced every child as an individual. For my DD that meant that she played with the children, joined in with the routines, but also had high quality conversations with adults at a level appropriate to her development. Sometimes she'd pop into the office to chat to the manager and sit at her desk doing drawings. It wasn't a school nursery, but they had regular visits from the local reception teachers and were able to ask them for advice on her next steps as she had met all of the "school ready" targets they typically worked towards.