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How rare is it to get level 4 in ks1?

(73 Posts)
irvine101 Mon 13-Jul-15 18:03:08

I was wondering , since lots of children on MN gets level6 end of ks2.
Also wondering, since level will be gone(for my ds, in yr2), how do they set the target?

var123 Mon 13-Jul-15 19:35:08

It is exceptionally rare for 2 reasons:-
1. It is hard to do (especially for English that requires maturity, lots of exposure to language etc)
2. Year 2 teachers are not induced to progress children quickly. A few level3s - yes, good. However, level 4 means:-
(i)Any child taught up to level 4 is time not spent with the children who will struggle to get level 2 (something that the teacher is measured against) and
(ii) L4 at KS1 will create a rod for the back of the school generally, as now they have to get a L6 or fail to show adequate progress.

DelphiniumBlue Mon 13-Jul-15 19:36:15

I have never come across Level 4 at KS1.

downgraded Mon 13-Jul-15 19:37:33

Impossible in our school as we only test as far as level 3.

YouCantBeSadHoldingACupcake Mon 13-Jul-15 19:38:03

2b is average for the end of ks1. Some children will get level 3, but I would be amazed if any get level 4 at that age

SillyBub Mon 13-Jul-15 19:39:52

They only assess to level 3 at KS1 in my DC's school.

Kerberos Mon 13-Jul-15 19:51:09

DD was assessed as level 4 at end of KS1. She's exceptionally bright. As far as I know she's the only one the school has ever assessed as being a 4 at her age and given her HT and teachers are a sensible group of people I can't see they'd have taken the decision lightly.

She's now at the end of year 5 and still doing well and enjoying school and learning.

teeththief Mon 13-Jul-15 19:55:42

DS was given a L4 in maths at the end of ks1. He'd been having maths with higher years since year 1, but even then I didn't realise how rare it was until I spoke to people on here. He's now year 5 and still way ahead of his cohort in maths. It hasn't been easy though and I wouldn't be surprised if his progress levels on paper aren't enough for the government!

JiltedJohnsJulie Mon 13-Jul-15 19:59:00

DS got a level 4 in maths and has just got 6c in Maths in Y6 not so stealth brag grin

Feenie Mon 13-Jul-15 20:03:03

Impossible in our school as we only test as far as level 3.

It's a teacher assessment, downgraded - the test is a small part. Do you also only teacher assess to level 3? Why the artificial ceiling on learning?

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Mon 13-Jul-15 20:06:12

Very rare. More common in maths than reading and writing. The emotional maturity needed to read and write at level 4 is often missing even if they might have the technical skills.

downgraded Mon 13-Jul-15 20:15:02

Feenie the maximum the kids can score on the usual ks1 paper is 2b. Some take a further paper to see if they are level 3.

If we had a kid who was still miles ahead I suppose we could test further. We've never had any need to.

No need to be snippy.

Feenie Mon 13-Jul-15 20:32:00

Not snippy, just explaining that KS1 assessment properly in the light of your test comment. The annually issued KS1 ARA document has consistently referred to levels 1 to 4 at KS1 because, as I explained, it is a teacher assessment and the test level is a small part.

var123 Mon 13-Jul-15 20:35:02

I'm not sure what happened this year re: L6 sats pass rate.

Two years ago, Ds1 was in a class with an unusually large number of very able children and about 1/4 of them got a L6, with 2 children getting 2 L6s. It was considered an exceptional year (those were the exact words of the deputy head).

Now, in 2015, Ds2 is in a fairly unexceptional class and nearly 1/2 of them have a level 6 in something or other (usually maths). 3 or 4 of them have got 2 L6s. 100% got a 4b or better.

This is a normal state, single-form entry primary with a mostly lower middle class catchment. The Y6 teacher is very dedicated but she's been the teacher for several years now, and this is the first time she got results like these.

It will be interesting to see the countrywide statistics when they get published (in September?).

Feenie Mon 13-Jul-15 20:36:52

Feenie the maximum the kids can score on the usual ks1 paper is 2b. Some take a further paper to see if they are level 3.

This is also misinformation. The mark schemes at level 2 go up to 2a, not 2b. And the ARA states children should not be tested more than once - they need to complete either level 2 or level 3, at any time in the year from September. The tests are part of the assessment conversation for each child - they are not the summative be all and end all.

Until next year, anyway.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Mon 13-Jul-15 20:39:51

The maximum score on the level 2 paper is a 2a isn't it. The children are only supposed to sit either the 2 or the 3 depending on which level the teacher decides is most appropriate. The level reported to parents and the LA and used for official measures is the teacher assessment level which can be reported as P levels, W,1,2a,2b,2c, 3 or 4. There shouldn't be any schools only recording a maximum of 3 if they are following the statutory processes for administering KS1 tests and assessments.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay Mon 13-Jul-15 20:40:50

X posts with Feenie.

downgraded Mon 13-Jul-15 20:57:16

I presume you are talking about state schools only then?

Feenie Mon 13-Jul-15 21:02:14

Why, aren't you? confused

downgraded Mon 13-Jul-15 21:03:32


irvine101 Mon 13-Jul-15 21:06:57

Wow! shocked to see lots of talk going on!
Ds got lv4 for maths. He took other tests, and the teacher was frantic about moderation. So I don't think it was inflated result.
Previously, we were told he's not that far ahead, then everything changed in yr2.
He had great teacher, and also school had missed out on Ofsted rating for not stretching able children. Lucky coincidence.
Now the level is no more, I wonder how are they going to keep it up?
There will be no level6 to aim for, for the good Ofsted rating.
Sorry if this was completely out of topic now, I can't type fast enough.

Feenie Mon 13-Jul-15 21:09:52

Why did you assume that the OP wasn't, on a KS1 statutory assessment thread?

The misinformation you have posted isn't uniform for all non-state schools either.

Feenie Mon 13-Jul-15 21:12:01

Irvine, the date are convinced they have worked out a system for measuring progress from the old levelling to the new.

They just haven't seen fit to share it with anyone yet. hmm

Feenie Mon 13-Jul-15 21:12:34

DfE, not date.

QueenOfNothing Mon 13-Jul-15 21:16:20

It's certainly more common in Infant schools than in primary's. Because infant schools don't have to worry about what those pupils will get in KS2.....

At DDs Infant school lots of pupils sat a level 3-5 paper in Y2 and a few of them were awarded a L4.

Which I'm not sure if they actually were or not.....

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