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If your year 6 child is sitting the level 6 SAT's....

(54 Posts)
marne2 Mon 17-Nov-14 19:39:13

Are they attending extra maths lessons?

My dd has been 'chosen' to take part in extra maths ( after school club ) at another school, something to do with 'gifted and talented'. Her teacher hasn't really explained much, only 2 children in her year are attending. I have been told it's related to next years SAT's and the level 6 paper. I am confused smile. Dd's school doesn't really have a G&t register as its a small school, my dd and her friend are the only ones sitting the level 6 next year ( or so we have been told, this may change ).

Has anyone else's child been asked to attend extra maths lessons or a maths club?

iggly2 Mon 17-Nov-14 19:43:35

DS goes to a math club (at schools request). He loves it. I think just let your Dd go and see if she enjoys it. It could be lots of fun especially as it will be with her friend smile.

marne2 Mon 17-Nov-14 19:46:20

She went today for the first time, she loved it even though she wasn't allowed to sit with her friend ( they mixed the children up so they could get to know each other ), there were 2 children from each local primary ( 8 schools ), she seemed really happy when I picked her up smile. Just worried as we have been given little information about the club, we were only told about it on Friday.

iggly2 Mon 17-Nov-14 19:49:20

DS currently harbouring a cold so I asked if he wanted to miss school tommorrow, the response....."But Mum it's maths club".

lljkk Tue 18-Nov-14 19:08:05

yes, DS has groused about missing some PE for the extra sessions (3 or 4 other boys in them, too, including his best mates, so he's fine about it, really).

var123 Wed 19-Nov-14 14:14:27

yes.. maths (def), SPAG (probably) and reading (maybe). The teacher tests in late January and puts forward those who come at least close.

I doubt Ds2 will actually be allowed to do the reading test (it was a surprise he's even good to be considered).

Unless things have changed a lot in the last year, so few pass the reading test that rounds to 0% in the department of education report.

Interestingly, I just had a conversation with DS1's secondary school maths teacher who said that the appearance of children arriving at secondary already with a level 6, is causing the school to rethink what it does during KS3.

marne2 Wed 19-Nov-14 18:24:28

Dd is also sitting level 6 reading, her teacher has no concerns about her not reaching a level 6 as she has been working at a level 6 in reading and writing for a while. Am I right in thinking that the writing SAT is now based on work they do in class and they no longer have to sit a paper? Dd is working at a higher level in literacy than she is maths so I can see how extra maths lessons ( maths club ) may help her achieve the level 6.

Redcoats Wed 19-Nov-14 18:31:36

DS is already on target for maths and is a maybe for Reading ans writing. He's doing extra lessons for both in school time. Tbh I'm a bit hmm about all the extra work involved to get them to level 6.

Unlike everyone else's child up thread, he hates both.

OhYouBadBadKitten Wed 19-Nov-14 18:37:55

I don't understand the requirement for extra lessons. The level 6 wasnt introduced as a new target to aim for but was because some children were topping out at the top end of level 5 and so there wasnt an accurate measurement of their ability (those who would get close to 100% on a 3-5 paper). So now it seems as those who are able are being pushed artificially into a new bracket.

NeatFreak Wed 19-Nov-14 18:39:43

We've been told that my dd will be sitting level six for everything but there's been no mention of extra lessons or homework etc. They are in carefully selected sets in her school with just six in the too set from two classes so I guess they do different work

TheFallenMadonna Wed 19-Nov-14 18:41:37

That's what happens when you start judging schools on it...

I agree though, no extra lessons should be required.

Redcoats Wed 19-Nov-14 18:44:21

Kitten - I'm with you there. My view is if you can't get there under your own steam then you aren't really there. And it's not like these marks mean anything to the child.

The teacher told me the extra maths lessons will cover topics they won't have time to go into in the normal lessons. So, more or less, hothousing for the level 6.
DS is pretty good at maths anyway and was working at 5a in year 5, so could probably have a good go at the level 6 maths. But I know his writing really isn't level 6 ability. But they're still pushing him for it.

lljkk Wed 19-Nov-14 19:08:17

DD got there "on her own steam" as some would prefer.
DS is less ambitious & I like him being actively encouraged to do his best, especially with a peer group of nice mates.

18yearstooold Wed 19-Nov-14 19:12:41

Dd isn't doing maths but is doing English -she lacks confidence in maths so I would rather build her confidence than add pressure in maths

No extra classes, everything is done in class

marne2 Wed 19-Nov-14 19:30:24

I'm not 100% sure the maths club is for SATs ( just what another parent was told ), teacher just said dd had been selected as a g&t child to go to maths club at the high school. We were told she is sitting level 6 ( along with one other child ) at parents evening a couple weeks ago. The maths club seems to be a bit of fun whilst preparing for SAT's.

PiqueABoo Wed 19-Nov-14 19:55:25


Do they get to anything else much in school under their own steam or do children have lessons that we don't normally call hothousing where they are taught about and often practice new areas of the curriculum?

The nature of the L6 paper means you can get close to the pass threshold if you're very good at L5 and some might get slightly over it. However to answer the other ~40% you need to know some stuff beyond the L3-L5 curriculum content.

DD's (former) primary is single-form entry so no sets and by Y6 there was a very wide range of ability for maths which can be a teensy bit challenging for a teacher, especially if they have some very disruptive children in the class etc.

DD was through with L3-L5 a year earlier and had been coasting for England. At roughly this point in the year they started having lessons on L6 topics once a week with an HLTA instead of the normal class Numeracy lesson: a bit like a temporary set.

var123 Wed 19-Nov-14 20:17:22

yes, writing has been teacher assessed for at least the last two years. Its all writing e.g. RE or history as well as time spent in english lessons.

iggly2 Thu 20-Nov-14 13:51:57

Not sure DS's school do SATs. He just enjoys it and the school encourgage him smile.

Makes mental note shoud I find out more about SATs.....

var123 Thu 20-Nov-14 15:32:28

It makes a difference at secondary school, iggly, IME.

Whatever secondary schools officially say about only using CAT tests, they can't avoid using SATS too. A secondary school can't give a Y7 child an end of year maths target of 6, if they have a certificate that says they had already reached that level when they left primary school.

Even if your primary doesn't bother with level 6 sats, what about all the other primaries who will send your child's future classmates to secondary next year?

I do think there is plenty of time (with time to spare) though to get to a level 8 by the end of year 9, before going onto start the GCSE course in y10. So, its not just about future targets.

Where it really made a difference to Ds1, was he wanted to be in the top set, and luckily for him, he went to a secondary school that does set children.

Frankly, DS1 wanted to be set fresh work at a challenging rate and he wanted to be out of earshot of as many of the disruptive pupils as possible. He'd had enough of the opposite experience at primary school.

If the secondary school set the various subjects, then likely they will do it by a combination of potential (CAT) and prior attainment (SAT).

uilen Thu 20-Nov-14 16:15:18

Most secondary schools do not exclude children without level 6 from their top sets, precisely because many primary schools don't offer level 6. And in most secondaries who do set right from the start there is considerable movement between maths sets over the first year.

My DC is a very selective (private) secondary school and the school not only does not stream or set children using level 6 knowledge; it also re-teaches most of the level 6 work done in prep schools. The same would have been true in all other selective schools we looked at, as well as in the local outstanding comprehensive (whose results beat grammar schools and for whom at least 10% of kids come in with level 6 maths).

Selective private schools, if they set maths from the start, do it mostly on the basis of in-house challenging tests on level 5 material. (So a child who is hitting 90+% on level 5, passing level 6, might still only get 50-60% on such tests whereas another child with no level 6 exposure might get a higher score and be in a higher set.)

A state secondary school can absolutely give a level 6 target at the end of year 7 to a child who was pushed though level 6 but doesn't really understand the material well enough.

(BTW top set doesn't necessarily mean non-disruptive.)

iggly2 Thu 20-Nov-14 16:40:19

(BTW top set doesn't necessarily mean non-disruptive.) that wink, afraid to say I gave teachers nightmares!

DS is staying in the same school through out (hopefully) so should not be a problem.

SoonToBeSix Thu 20-Nov-14 16:42:05

I didn't realise level six was classed as gifted and talented. A good number of children in my dc's school achieve level six.

marne2 Thu 20-Nov-14 17:09:18

Soon, I don't think it does necessarily mean g&t, it depends on the school and what level the other children are working at ( g&t is top 5% in the year group, I think?). I'm not 100% sure how it works, dd has never been put on a g&t register at school as I don't think they have one, it's only been now that she has been called g&t because of being selected for this club ( top 2 children in the class have been selected from each school ). Her teacher did say 'only 2 children are sitting the level 6 maths in the class' but dd goes to a small school and there are only 19 children in her class/year. If she was at another school maybe she would not be classed as G&t.

PiqueABoo Thu 20-Nov-14 20:41:52

@Uilen: "Most secondary schools..."

Y7 DD's set maths from day one based on KS2 SATs only. They have parallel sets so roughly half of each top-set class are children with L6s and the other half are the high L5s. The primary feeders all seem to offer L6, but realistically they couldn't fill a single top-set class with thoroughly L6 competent children i.e. the L6 passes will range from scraped to strolled across the threshold.

It's the same story at this secondary and a too distant plutographic one here re. repeating the L6 work. DD doesn't need to do that but she enjoys maths because she likes the teacher and the children on her table. There is nothing in writing but they clearly have in-class ability (table grouping) which helps.

@marne2, "I'm not 100% sure how it works"

G&T has always been murky and there's no requirement for schools to do that now. Some secondary schools might still have the concept kicking around though. In Y6 DD was temporarily appointed as one of two G&T sports girls for some secondary thing involving all their primary feeder schools, but that primary had stopped their G&T register as soon as the government requirement stopped several years earlier.

simpson Thu 20-Nov-14 22:08:31

DS is in yr5 & has started work for L6 reading & maths. He isn't doing any extra work but now does maths with the L6 group ( about 6 kids) whilst the rest of his year group are doing maths with their teacher.

He is pulled out twice a week (misses RE) to do reading L6.

Deputy Head does both groups.

DS raves about the maths, not so keen on the reading (but prefers it to RE!!)

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