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"gifted" a gender problem

(77 Posts)
iggly2 Fri 07-Nov-14 23:40:19

Not so much the percentage of females or males that are gifted but the consequences......

Coolas Fri 07-Nov-14 23:41:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

theposterformallyknownas Fri 07-Nov-14 23:42:58

Hello OP,

Can you tell us wtf you are on about please smile

LizardBreath Fri 07-Nov-14 23:46:01

Consequences of..........? Being female and super clever = good. Being
male and super clever = good,

iggly2 Fri 07-Nov-14 23:49:53

That the consequences of falling into a certain category and how it is delt with may have different effects dependent on your gender. I read a book (I think it was by Malcolm Gladwell) that assessed the results on how different groups of children delt with a tough assesment. Here there was a test where the middle segment was impossible (too little data included etc). The intelligent females could not cope with the (do-able) questions that came after. They fell apart and severely under performed. They performed less than the other (in theory) less intelligent groups.

Coolas Fri 07-Nov-14 23:55:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

theposterformallyknownas Fri 07-Nov-14 23:56:12

Hello iggly.

Was the less intelligent group also consisting of girls do you know?
Also, do you mean that generally speaking girls are more prone to not cope after impossible test questions?

iggly2 Fri 07-Nov-14 23:58:23

opps! Dealt looks far better (science and math etc were always more my style)!

It's very serious to me. I think I would be more concerned if my DS was my DD.

iggly2 Sat 08-Nov-14 00:01:42

The groups were divided into: intelligent boys, intelligent girls, less intelligent boys, less intelligent girls.This is from what I can recall-I will go and check.

What I am sure of is the detrimental effect that the test had on above intelligence females.

theposterformallyknownas Sat 08-Nov-14 00:04:34

My dd is gifted, but not academically, so I can't answer for the test questions.
However, she is highly strung, a perfectionist and if she is struggling with something she doesn't like it one little bit.
I'm convinced she thinks because she has a gift and is so talented everything should fall into place and she has no need to work.
Then something comes up and she isn't always properly prepared because she thinks she knows it all.
As you can imagine this drives her family mad, especially her eldest brother who was a real slow plodder at school.
Sometimes its like a self destruct button, or shooting themselves in the foot. Is this what you mean?
I'm not sure that some boys aren't like this too though.

theposterformallyknownas Sat 08-Nov-14 00:07:14

sorry, I don't mean struggling. Something that takes effort, work, practice over a long period.
It's like why should I do that? I'm gifted, why should I work?

BaffledSomeMore Sat 08-Nov-14 00:09:15

Going back some years decades as a very bright girl I was picked on. The equivalently or more bright boys weren't.
Is that what you're getting at?

iggly2 Sat 08-Nov-14 00:09:28

I'm sure some boys are like this as well. This was group statistics, but then one case is anecdotal. I look at DS and DH (I get the irony that this is anecdotal as well wink) they can deal with setbacks at the moment. The children in the assesment were told to always skip to the next question if they could not do the current question.

iggly2 Sat 08-Nov-14 00:11:54

It's not a matter of being picked on (according to the reseach I'm refering to) but maybe that plays apart in females not being able to deal with the subsequent questions.

BaffledSomeMore Sat 08-Nov-14 00:20:39

Sorry on phone and hadn't seen explanation.
Hmm. I did physics practical backwards because the actual point of the practical wasn't clear until the end. I was the only girl that passed the practical in my year. I probably have Aspergers.
Does that fit?

unclerory Sat 08-Nov-14 00:20:48

Are you, or Malcolm Gladwell, conflating two different phenomena? There's some evidence that kids who are labelled as 'bright' (or choose your adjective of choice) behave like theposter's DD and feel like if they have to work at something they have failed at it and so don't try. Kids who learn how to put effort into their learning tend to do better because hard work is a more important lifeskill for success than intelligence. There's no gender component to that though as far as I'm aware.

On the other hand there's a thing called 'stereotype threat' where if people are reminded of their gender or colour or sexuality they are then likely to go on to behave in a way that fits the social stereotype for that group. So, e.g. if you give a mixed group a maths test and get them to fill in their University on the front page those who are at famous universities do the best. If you ask them to record their gender or ethnicity then the scores of women or POC go down dramatically.

What I particularly love about stereotype threat is that if you change what stereotype you remind people of you get different results. So the results of famous spatial awareness test that 'male brains' do best at (where you rotate 3D shapes) can be completely reversed if you tell people it test the skills that are used in dressmaking and flower arranging and interior design. Suddenly the women do the best and the men do the worst.

iggly2 Sat 08-Nov-14 00:23:40

Not exactly "baffledsomemore" but I am all for working out a problem backwards. I do not think I have explained what I mean well (but I admit that the subject matter was designed to start a conversation).

theposterformallyknownas Sat 08-Nov-14 00:25:46

Yes, I see now.
I've found a typical situation for dd which would confirm this.
Sight reading in music, especially if it is something at a higher level than she is used to.
When she goes wrong instead of carrying on she shouts, swears at herself because she can't believe she has made a mistake. Generally if she is just practising she will stop, do that bit until it is right and move on, no problem.
Maybe it is when the pressure is on, or moreover when they themselves put the pressure on they crumble.

theposterformallyknownas Sat 08-Nov-14 00:27:34

iggly

You are doing fine, it isn't always easy to put it into words, I struggle with this too. I will chat all day about this stuff because it is interesting. grin

iggly2 Sat 08-Nov-14 00:33:01

Unclerory, from what I can recall effort was not assesed. We are talking people classified into intelligent or less intelligent (or less able to perform well on an IQ test!) and by gender. They were then asked to take a subsequent test that got progressively more difficult before becoming impossible. The test latterly became possible again. The children were told that they should keep trying to answer questions including skipping to the next question if they found one difficult. This may have been children or young adults (I think children). I think it was Malcolm Gladwell but it may have been "Nurture Shock".

iggly2 Sat 08-Nov-14 00:36:15

The "intelligent" females suddenly underperformed the less intelligent males and females. The difference between genders was what was noted.

BaffledSomeMore Sat 08-Nov-14 00:36:26

Are we talking about blagging then? Men ime do blag it further than women.

Tallypet Sat 08-Nov-14 00:37:33

I am a fairly intelligent woman. Well read and rounded. To be honest your post is confusing. Is being gifted is a gender problem?
I don't believe it is. Your grammar and spelling let you down. Seems from your posts that boys are smarter? Is this what you're saying?
Personally it looks like someone looking for research for a thesis/article.
For someone who can't spell 'dealt' you've done a good 'job' with your copy and pasting research

theposterformallyknownas Sat 08-Nov-14 00:40:10

Unclerory

Wow, that is really interesting about the male/female expectation and the way the brain works.
Does this mean that some women diagnosed with lack of spatial awareness as a diagnosis for dyspraxia could be wrong?
I know they weren't in my case as I can't control a supermarket trolley and don't drive for this reason. Does this throw into question the creative type apparently being predominantly right brain and the logical being the left?

iggly2 Sat 08-Nov-14 00:42:35

Tallypet I am not stating that males or females are smart.

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