Entrance Exam tuition?

[gingerg]

Just been told that 9 yr old DD is very G&T and should be entered for selective school nearby. Advised, though, that she should have a tutor before sitting entrance exam just to help her prepare. Anyone know how I can find a good tutor? Especially grateful if anyone knows where I can find a good tutor in Orpington?!

[SueW]

If your DD is truly G&T she should sail through the exam anyway. You can help her prepare either by using past papers or buying the various types of papers available through WHS and similar to help get her used to the types of questions that might appear.

[Fauve]

Personally, I would advise going through an agency, then you can change tutors if not happy. I think it's essential to get a tutor who won't scare or bore your dd witless.

[gingerg]

It's not the basics that I'm worried about - she is capable of doing the academic stuff - but, as I guess is obvious, where the school has to select 120 out of around 5/600 applicants, they are looking for differentiators such as use of vocabulary etc etc and it is this that the teacher suggested a tutor might be able to help with. Did ask him whether he could suggest anyone, but he seemed reluctant. I'm concerned, too, that her current school might not stretch her enough next year, and I don't want her getting bored/frustrated just as the exams are due (her current teacher is leaving and G&T doesn't appear to be high on their agenda!).

[frogs]

We went through this last year, though in London the odds are if anything worse for the few remaining grammar schools.

Based on our experience, the selective school exams do go beyond the National Curriculum work that dd1 had been doing, so think it is worth getting a tutor. Even the most genius child needs to be shown how to eg. multiply fractions in order to understand it. Selective state school exams do try to minimise this difference by using verbal and non-verbal reasoning as well as multiple-choice formats, which help level the playing field a bit, but even so some extra help and practice is useful.

For private school the differential is even more stark, as they have extended writing tasks and complex comprehensions that go way beyond even Level 5 of the SATS work.

Dd1 had about 18 months of tutoring, and enjoyed it most of the time. We found our tutor through Gabbitas who only operate in London, but you could phone them and ask whether there are any agencies they could recommend. Otherwise just phone around agencies and interview people until it 'clicks'. You're looking for someone who is experienced at preparing children for these exams, not some penniless PhD student looking to supplement their income. Ours was a retired senior teacher from a local prep school, who really took to dd1 which helped.

hth

[singersgirl]

Tutoring is the done thing here in SW London for either Tiffin Boys and Girls, or the independent day schools. A lot of the recommendation is word of mouth, so you could ask the school if they know anyone or if anyone in y5/6 is currently being tutored.

A friend passed on a tutors' name to me and we both (pushy anxious types) have our Y3 boys on her waiting list, though we may not pursue the selective schools route when we get there - last year she was booking up to 2011!!!!!

[albosmum]

guessing I live near singersgirl would say tutor is essential - get one from recommendation - the one we found tutored one of the two boys who got a place starting this year in a selective school.
I am also doing practice papers - ds1 is bright but his school just does not prepare the children for the tests. The only thing i regret is not starting earlier - we started in nov 05 and he sits test in november 06. The first thing tutor pointed out were problems in the way he was taught maths - very slow methods which were not suitable for completing the test papers.

So get a recommendation and start now if you want DD to get a place

[Hallgerda]

I agree with SueW. Tutoring is not essential; you can buy practice papers from WH Smith or online from these people , and there's a nice book on English 11+ preparation here . You can save a fortune explaining to your own child how you multiply fractions (and even add the things). And I would recommend you check whether you and your daughter actually like the selective school in question better than your local comp before spending money on tutors.

[roisin]

Frogs - can I ask how many hours (minutes?) per week/fortnight/month whatever your dd did with a tutor? Was it one-to-one?

[albosmum]

i was talking to an ex head in the area i live in and she was saying that 14 out of every 15 places go to children who are tutored - so i think re: tutoring it probably does depend where you live

[Bink]

Like everything, it probably depends on the personality of the child and on the particular school she's aiming for.

I put my ds through a selective school test early this year without any tutoring, and I think not doing the tutoring was a serious mistake. He came out with scores "up with our top few" (the school's words) in maths (where he has effectively been tutoring himself for the last year) but in other areas (eg vocab test) did not realise things as basic as that you're allowed to answer even if you're not absolutely certain your answer is right. I felt like I'd put a game little pony through the Grand National

Our plan for this year is to arrange the tutoring for him - and then, purely on the basis of whether he enjoys the tutoring, decide whether to he sits the school's exam for the next intake.

[frogs]

Yes, roisin, it was one-to-one. We started in Y4, one hour a week, initially just English because I found that was actually much harder than the maths to do at home, being more open-ended and nebulous. After a while we felt the maths needed a bit of work too, so they did both maths and English within the one weekly hour. But she was given homework as well, in quite large quantities as the exams drew closer.

It was a very important experience for dd1, since she had never experienced that level of challenge and rigour in the work she was doing at school.

[singersgirl]

Celia2, the surname does begin with a 'W', I think - though being me I have put the details on some scrappy bit of paper somewhere.

Apparently, the general recommendation for tutoring here is to start in Term 2 of Y5, do 2 terms' teaching and 1 term of exam practice before exams in Term 2 of Y5. It all sounds a bit grim really and we're not at all sure yet what type of school will be right for DS1.

Even if you don't tutor, just giving your child practice in those verbal/non-verbal reasoning tests is helpful - for example, in the 'odd one out' type questions, it often helps to count things/look at lines of symmetry etc.

We haven't paid to be 'on a list' so I am covering my bases.

[NotAnOtter]

if child 'very' g & t no tutoring will be required

[NotAnOtter]

my children got in without tutors - some of the more tutored children struggle and are not happy

[NormaSnorks]

The Athey site is great, but does anyone know where I can find examples of assessment tests for Yr2 (aged 7) children - DS will be taking some sort of test to try to get a place into a private prep school for Yr3.

[NotAnOtter]

and did you cat???

[swedishmum]

I've left it too late then for my Y5 dd and tutoring!

[singersgirl]

But I'm not sure the tutoring is all about pushing them beyond their natural level - it's about making sure that they have covered everything they might need to know, as Frogs said.

As a small example, the entrance exam info for a well-known boys' prep and senior school near here expects that for the exam in Term 2 of Y3 the children will know all times tables up to 10 x 10. Now they certainly hadn't been taught those at my sons' state school. Nor had they been taught vertical addition and subtraction. I'm sure some very able mathematical types work these things out by themselves, but not all bright children do maths for fun. Nor do they all teach themselves the parts of speech, even though they might learn them quickly once exposed to the concepts.

We didn't do this entrance exam, by the way, but it illustrated for me how much more a child at a pre-prep would have been expected to know.

[SueW]

My DD isn't labelled as G&T. Her school doesn't do G&T or IEPs.

On the Athey tests online mentioned earlier she scored over 90% in all areas. She was just 9yo at the time she did them and iirc there is some sort of age adjustment thing on the website whihc predicts their score at 11+.

[SueW]

NormaSnorks, you may be able to get past papers from the school but if not, try my local selective boys' school who will post out papers if you tell them which year gorup you are applying for. No idea whether you need to have paid any fee or whether these are likely to be anything like what your DS may face.

[NotAnOtter]

sorry i thought you were talking about grant maintained schools not fee paying

[Ladymuck]

NotanOtter - did your children get into one of the London state selective schools?

If you're looking at the Bromley schools (eg Newstead) then entrance is usually very strictly determined by entrance exam (unlike independents which will be able to spot tutored and untutored children and make appropriate allowances). Usually tutors seem to go round by word of mouth. If you don't have playground connections then phoning the school secretaries may be of help.