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Wheat free diet and excessive wind

(31 Posts)
IlanaK Mon 22-Sep-08 19:36:36

I am not bothering to change my name for this even though it is somewhat embarrasing.

I have recently changed to a wheat free diet (due to baby reacting to my breastmilk). This has meant an increase in other grains in my diet (particularly rye and oats). Since doing this, I have had excessive wind. I am sure it is related to this as I remember a similar thing from a long time ago when I started eating too much rye bread toast in the mornings (it was so yummy!).

So, is this normal? And is there anything i can do about it as it is not much fun.

misi Mon 22-Sep-08 20:07:23

majorly changing your diet can have this effect as the friendly bugs you have may have become rather specialised. the only safe thing I can suggest now is to get yourself some friendly bugs to take to help with your digestion. pills from health shops will be better and more economical in the long run than the yoghurt type drinks etc (if baby is reacting to gluten/wheat, it may be possible for baby to be reacting to dairy too)

I use and reccommend to my clients this www.nutraceutical.com/search/view_product.cfm?product_index=7670017

if you go to a shop, make sure the friendly bugs are kept in the fridge unless it specifically says temperature stable on the bottle, otherwise don't touch them!!

or you can buy things like this online

IlanaK Mon 22-Sep-08 20:08:51

I am dairy free too so have been taking a probiotic daily in pill form (from Health Span).

So you don't think it is something about the grains then?

misi Mon 22-Sep-08 20:58:30

well, if you're avoiding wheat, I would also avoid rye too as rye contains gluten like wheat does, oats are ok-ish.

buckwheat, corn, millet, maize, rice, qunioa and amaranth are gluten free grains

wheat, spelt, rye, barley, kamut and triticale contain gluten.

I do get confused about oats sometimes though, some list as gluten free, others list in the gluten containing list hmm but it is only small amounts and oats do not conatin gliadin, the other protein lumped in with gluten that is highly reactive in some people

www.csaceliacs.org/gluten_grains.php

have a look at this site.

IlanaK Mon 22-Sep-08 22:07:04

I was not specifically trying to be gluten free - just wheat free. But its interesting, both my son and I were a lot less windy when I was eating spelt rather than rye. Maybe it is something specific to Rye rather then the gluten.

misi Mon 22-Sep-08 23:11:59

the main antagonist in wheat is gluten along with 2 other proteins. wheat free usually means gluten free and vice versa.
spelt is the plant that modern wheat comes from. the romans grew spelt as did many euro and mid east countries and modern wheat is selectively bred from this. gluten in spelt is much less and is easier to digest but still gluten if you see what I mean. rye is very closely related to wheat and is a member of the same family of plants, tritcae (not sure thats spelt correctly but laong those lines!!) and has many similar ingredients and characteristics.

keep taking the bugs, as a digestive enzyme supplementation is not usually reccommended when breast feeding but also try a gluten free diet and see what happens as when ''transferring'' allergens across through milk, it is usually the proteins that cause the problems rather than the sugars (so in dairy it will be the casein thats the problem not the lactose, usually but not always) and the same in wheat types

shortcircuit Mon 22-Sep-08 23:14:16

drink a glass of water with a tsp of bicarbonate. If you don't burp, you'll be suffering from low stomach acid. Google Betaine Hydrochloride

Otherwise, maybe it's just a change of diet ?

misi Mon 22-Sep-08 23:38:05

hydrochloric acid supplementation is not reccommended without strict supervision for women not breast feeding let alone those who are. unless done correctly this can cause more harm than good and if not done effectively does no good at all. it is a common falicy that if you take a betaine pill it will work, it won't. it may say on the bottle take one with each meal, but this is not a theraputic dose to correct the problem if it is low acid and will do no good at all. by changing your diet and taking friendly bugs, your stomach acid will correct itself eventually if this is the problem.

also as babies are born in an alkaline state and mum will be acidic till up to 3 months after breast feeding stops(this is the greatest cause of pre acclampsia, the acid/alkaline imbalance) and babies stay alkaline till they stop breast feeding and for up to 3 months after, supplementing with HCA whilst breastfeeding is not something a doc will reccommend (not that they use HCA supps anyway as a treatment) but none of my fellow herbalists would sanction HCA supps either for a breastfeeding mother as it could ''taint'' the milk at best, disrupt feeding or worse.

thumbwitch Mon 22-Sep-08 23:54:44

the gluten in oats has been found to be substantially different to the gluten in wheat, rye and barley. This is due to a series of sub-proteins in each grain - in coeliac's disease (NOT saying that is anything to do with you but it is explanatory) it has been discovered that the lesions are caused by a partially digested portion of gliadin (from wheat), which is very similar to one found in secalins (from rye) and hordeins (from barley) but NOT found in the avenins (from oats). In other words, gluten from wheat, rye and barley can all cause coeliacs disease lesions in the gut, but oats don't seem to in the same way - even the coeliacs disease website has varying advice on oats. So if you are trying to be GLUTEN free you might want to skip the rye as well. I believe that spelt does not contain the same portion of gliadin that causes the problems either.

About the wind - oats contain a lot of lovely indigestible-by-us-but-our-gut-bacteria-love-them complex carbohydrates. This causes gas. Many probiotics also cause gas. So do many prebiotics. Is the gas particularly noxious? or just uncomfortable? After a while your gut flora will adjust to the new diet and settle down but if you can't handle it, reduce your oat intake a little.

If you are still determined to eat bread, the spelt bread is one option of course, but there is also this stuff, which you can buy in Waitrose (I haven't seen it in a Tesco store yet) and it's ok for toast and sandwiches. Not heavy at all, but a bit dry and crumbly.

shortcircuit Tue 23-Sep-08 19:34:16

misi, are you a hebalist ? how long would you say it would take to restore low stomach acid ?

Sorry for hijack, btw.

I have vitiligo, with low stomach acid & just waiting for the dosage of HCA to be given (along with efa's)

IlanaK Tue 23-Sep-08 20:23:53

Thanks for the information - very interesting to read.

I went back to spelt bread this morning and the wind disappeared. So it is obviously something about the rye that does not agree with me. My ds was no worse so I think spelt is ok for him too (through my milk).

I don't like the gluten free breads and I really don't want to go gluten free if I can avoid it. So spelt it is for now.

misi Tue 23-Sep-08 21:59:57

shortcircuit yes I am.
it all depends on the severity. the last HCA therapy I did took the client 2 weeks which was rather quick.

who is 'giving' you the dosage to take?

HCA therapy is not a single dose taken every day if you are trying to retrain your gut to produce its own HCA again, are you just going to be supplementing to treat the symptoms or are you going for the cause and to retrain?

thumbwitch Tue 23-Sep-08 22:58:57

IlanaK I totally understand your point of view on gluten-free breads - most of them you could build houses with - but I promise this one is different, nice and light, so if you ever do need to go gluten free, bear it in mind.

shortcircuit Tue 23-Sep-08 23:02:34

thanks for replying.

I have seen a nutritional therapist, who has recommended this for me. I am justing waiting for the details & it's been suggested I have an amino acid test.

I've had medical blood tests & have a lwbc. I also have vertical ridges on my nails, failed the bicarb test. Obviously, lots more, but not sure it's appropriate to post :- )

I suffer from low blood sugar, the crave/ sugar/crash syndrome + VV bad PMT. Am just trying to increase my efa's too.

Welcome any/all suggestions.

shortcircuit Tue 23-Sep-08 23:05:31

BTW as I have been advised to do wheat free, I have made bread with Doves farm wheat & gluten free white bread flour, which is wheat & gluten free. I followed the instructions on the back of the pack (rather than the bread maker programme) & it's actually quite nice.

thumbwitch Tue 23-Sep-08 23:11:01

If you have seen a BANT-approved nutritional therapist then you should follow what they say rather than take extraneous advice from us on here (although herbalists always have a different slant so their advice can be a useful addition).

It is a bad idea to try too many different things at once, especially if your nut therapist is putting you on some kind of regime, as what you do might interfere with the regime in an unguessable manner.

I love Dove's farm spelt flour Roman army bread - quite flat but very tasty!

misi Tue 23-Sep-08 23:23:25

can understand the amino acid test and the low blood sugar.

I would also reccommend a stool sample test too if this has not already been done, ask your nutritionist about them, very informative about what is going on in your digestive system and can tell what you are digesting and what you are not. also picks up on bacteria growth like HP and candida to name just 2, as a nutritionist as well as a herbalist, I often reccommend stool tests as a matter of course as it will tell me more about what is going on than everything else combined!!

shortcircuit Tue 23-Sep-08 23:36:28

oh goodness, I don't think anyone has been bad enough to receive a stool sample from me!

Yes, appreciate not trying too many things, however I am very interested in how it all works.

I understand I'm not digesting proteins - I am extremely windy within minutes of eating grin

thumbwitch Tue 23-Sep-08 23:45:14

no no, shortcircuit, they are trained professionals used to working with poo - yours wouldn't be any worse than others.grin

yes, if you have low stomach acid, you won't digest your proteins properly which can cause all sorts of interesting knock on effects, including a reduced ability to absorb zinc, which is essential for the production of stomach acid, and so the cycle continues.

shortcircuit Wed 24-Sep-08 10:28:36

thumbwitch, are you a NT ?

It's interesting that my dr poo pooed (excuse the pun) my visit. Instead she wants me to take ad's, whereas I think this is the way forward. Good health starts in the gut !

thumbwitch Wed 24-Sep-08 11:53:28

not exactly but i teach them. and work for one. and until the middle of this year, sub-edited a journal for them.
yes you are right about the gut - i don't know why so many hc professionals have such ishoos with the concept that diet can help - even Hippocrates knew that!

misi Wed 24-Sep-08 12:31:06

thumbwitch, years ago trainee doctors spent 30 mins of their 7 years training on nutrition I have been told, now that has increased to 2 hours, although one doctor I know said she spent 2 days ''doing nutrition''!! hmm
on the other hand, in my 5 years training I have spent roughly a year on nutrition/digestion.

it appears modern medicine and medics who take the hippocratic oath (another)hmm are trained more to treat the symptoms than the causes. in other countries, the relationship between natural and modern medicine is more of a partnership, here and in some other countries, naturals are seen as the devils work and has to be derided and put down.

One of the things that amazes me are the rush of scientific discoveries of late.

the latest one I have seen is about rosehips.

apparently scientists have discovered that a compound in the skin of rosehips helps to stimulate joint repair by increasing collagen production etc etc etc. this is a major break through and it will not be long before some pharmaceutical company has genetically altered the compound so as to patent it and start marketing it to the NHS for £millions, trouble is, most decent glusosamine or joint care products in the natural health sector already have rosehips in as this was known by us in the natural health care profession to help joints many many years ago.

I am a touch cynical today but money is a driving force. gaviscon/antacids are the most over and mis prescribed drugs in the world, billions are made on these compounds. they reduce staomach acidity as you know, but the fact is, more people suffer with low acidity (not chronic but enough to cause probs) in todays world due to our diet then they do with high acid, yet as the symptoms of low acid can lead to acid reflux (won't go into this as I am sure it is basic knowledge for you) and thats where the problem lies, simple diagnosing would show low acid levels but as HCA cannot be altered to allow patenting and is usually a longer term treatment rather than the quick fix antacids give, it is not given a thought until it becomes chronic and has caused damage although shortcircuit appears to have been caught early enough before she starts to worry!!

thumbwitch Wed 24-Sep-08 12:59:35

whoo, 2 whole days, that doc must think she knows all there is to know about it.

I find myself getting quite irritated about the whole topic really - especially because the well-known faces and names give the field a bad name, thus allowing the cynical to deride the whole concept with seeming impunity.

And, whatever anyone says, dietitians just don't have the same usefulness in some areas because they are not trained to look at the whole medical history and treat the body as a whole. My poor mum, God rest her, had a colostomy and when she was diagnosed with Type II diabetes, was sent to the dietitian who couldn't marry the two conditions together and so gave up!!!shock
And I've lost count of the number of people I know with Type II diabetes who are given the "diabetic diet" sheet, which indicates that a large amount of carbs should be eaten - absolutely right for anyone on insulin and absolutely WRONG for anyone with Type II and not yet on medication!

Don't worry misi about your touch of cynicism - I heard it suggested somewhere that the Big Pharma won't be happy until everyone in the world is on at least one drug, and preferably 3 - one for something, one to counter the side-effects of the first and another for good measure. Conspiracy theories here I come!grin

misi Wed 24-Sep-08 13:19:05

you could say she thinks she knows it all hmm we have some heated discussions sometimes grin

know what you mean about the type II diabetes too. my mum had this same problem. she was diagnosed with typeII and an appointment was made to see a dietitician around 6 weeks after which was not ideal I thought, so I got onto her about her diet. 6 weeks later, my mum asked me to go with her and I honestly sat and laughed in the room when the dietician was spouting her wares. I pointed out about the high carb content of some of the foods listed, and I am sure you will know about parsnips, they were listed as a very good food for a diabetic!!
suffice to say I persuaded mum to ditch the list and follow my diet plan for her, she was stable for 3 years, with very good glucose levels until my dad died and within a week she was on insulin sad.

ps, I had a client once who asked about a herb but I knew he was on some meds so I asked what. he said he would bring his repeat prescription in to show me as he was not sure. when he next came in, he had a prescription list that was 12 pages long!! shock 37 drugs he was on. not all were listed in my drug finder so I called his GP to ask. turned out that he needed 7 drugs, so many more were to counter the effects of the first 7 and even more were to counter the effects of the counter effects, amazingly, 2 drugs were ''just in case''.

the GP in the town was suprisingly co-operative and all 3 of us sat down and went through the drugs and treatments together, last I heard he had dropped down to 5 drugs and was feeling so much better. added into those 5 drugs were just 3 herbal preps and a change of diet and exercise regime.

can you imagine that surgerys drug reps bonus that year grin oops!!

thumbwitch Wed 24-Sep-08 13:58:34

Wow, 37 drugs, that's massive -I'm not so surprised the GP agreed to sit down with you - that was probably quite a high percentage of his annual drug budget!

<p.s - sorry about the thread hijack!>

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