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Pigeon toed and getting MUCH worse at 3.5.

(20 Posts)
Spidermama Tue 09-Sep-08 19:42:54

Ds4's feet have always turned in slightly but then so did DS2's and he grew out of it so I haven't been too bothered up until now.

It seems to be getting much more extreme. His left foot is now at North East as you look down.

He's three and a half and has always fallen over loads. He's known for it. sad

Any experience?

Spidermama Tue 09-Sep-08 19:55:41

Bump.

mckenzie Tue 09-Sep-08 19:57:33

no experience spidermama but have you asked your GP to refer you to a podiatrist?

liath Tue 09-Sep-08 20:00:08

If one leg is worse than the other then it might be worth seeing your GP about an orthopaedic referral. It's unlikely to need anything as drastic as an operation but an orthopaedic clinic would have good physiotherapists. HTH

barking Tue 09-Sep-08 20:08:28

We were also worried with this with our dc2. I also remember being told children grow out of it (which my dc1 did) so the whole diagnosis got delayed.Went to the hv/docs 3 times before we were eventually taken seriously and referred to rapid access pediatric clinic.

We found out my dc2 has hypermobility and hypotonia (high flexibility with low muscle tone). He has special inserts put into his shoes to correct the in-toeing and also has physio.
It would be worth pushing on this especially if you have noticed it getting worse.

Has your ds4 got particularly flexible joints or is floppy in any way? Does he get tired easily?

FlightAttendent Tue 09-Sep-08 20:12:21

Ah, sorry to hear that Spidey sad

Ds1's feet are still quite in-turning, he is just five and he does tend to trip up a lot. It was noticed by HV when he was around 2 and a half, three maybe - sent to podiatrist, she was v casual and said it will prob correct iytself. It hasn't yet but he seems to manage...I wonder if we need to take him back actually.

Sorry your little one is having trouble.

Spidermama Tue 09-Sep-08 21:00:09

Thanks flight. In the last couple of months it has become very pronounced. I think I will try to get a referral for him Barking.

I've been googling the symptoms (I know, I know blush) and whilst most say he'll grow out of it, others say he needs treatment. One woman talks of her incredible gratitude to her mum for forcing her into braces at night which corrected the problem. She says she hated it at the time and even hid the braces sad but now she sees awkward looking pigeon-toed adults and feels blessed with a lucky escape and a vigilant mum.

Obviously this story made me determined to have it checked thouroughly.

Hulababy Tue 09-Sep-08 21:05:30

My 6y DD is quite obviously pigeon toed, always has been. DD can be very clumsy too, although is a lot better these days. Her daddy is pigeon toed - was looked at as a child and deemed not to be a probelm. His day was also pigeon toed too - a hip operation 6 years ago sorted his out though.

Had never thought of having DD's looked into TBH.

tissy Tue 09-Sep-08 21:11:11

Spidermama, DO NOT GOOGLE. In-toeing is pretty common. 15% of the population in-toe. If it appears to be getting worse, go to your GP and ask or a referral to a paediatric orthopaedic surgeon. A podiatrist will tell you that the condition can be cured with insoles. And will make the insoles. Insoles do not work. If it gets better, it would have got better anyway!

The majority of cases of intoeing get better by the age of seven or eight, and even in those who don't, it ceases to be a major problem by then. Fewer than 1 in 1000 children who in-toe need surgery, and even then not until well into teenage years.

Have you seen awkward pigeon-toed adults?

Sawyer64 Tue 09-Sep-08 21:23:50

I was pidgeon-toed,and "knock-knee'd" too,which goes with this sometimes,and obviously makes the problem worse.

The Knock Knees are supposed to resolve themselves around the age of 7-8yrs apparently.

My mum was advised by the GP(in the 60's), to buy me Startrite shoes as they have more support than all the other makes around the instep and below the ankle.

My DS had similar problems ,and when he was a year old I took him to see an Orthopaedic Surgeon,who said it would improve when he started walking,and to put him in.....Startrite shoes! ( this being some 30 years later!)

As soon as I was old enough my mum "nagged" me to "turn my toes out",at first I exagerated this and walked like a clown,but it made me aware,and it either corrected itself or I did it,as I'm certainly not pidgeoned toed or knock knee'd now.

My DD1 is also like this and she is 4 yrs old,she wears Startrite and I have started making a game of turning her toes out,and as she trips over sometimes I have told her she wouldn't fall over if she turns her toes out!

Milliways Tue 09-Sep-08 21:30:07

Get it checked out for your own peace of mind.

I had Femoral Anteversion (Inward Rotating femurs) which required surgery at age 7, but now have straight legs

I was therefore worried when DD started in-toeing, but she just had loose joints and grew out of it.

Spidermama Tue 09-Sep-08 21:34:39

tissy that's kind of reassuring but I HAVE seen awkward in-toeing adults. My BIL is one of them. I often look at him, and at DS, and wonder how debilitating it must be to have a foot askew in this way.

I'm cheered to learn there's time for him to grow out of it. I had thought that now he's three it's more complicated.

Spidermama Tue 09-Sep-08 21:35:04

I probably wouldn't worry were it not for the constant falling over. sad

barking Tue 09-Sep-08 21:38:45

I would second the recommendation for startrite. The consultant also talked about the importance of a high instep (is your ds4 flat footed?) and the shoe being lightweight and offering good support around the ankle.

After much searching for a winter boot I bought these
geox boot

I can't find them on any uk website but my local shoe shop had them in a lovely olive and brown, completely waterproof as wellies offer no support but £48.

When my dh was watching the olympics, he caught an interview with a runner who was severely pigeon toed when she was a child and she explained in the interview her mother corrected it by putting her shoes on the wrong feet! Thought I would mention it as my dc2 often does this and is quite happy, he gets rather cross with me chasing him around the garden to put them on the 'right' feet.

Milliways Tue 09-Sep-08 21:38:52

Can he straighten his feet? Most kids ankle joints are floppy and the feet just "land" wherever.

The only reason I had surgery was that if my feet were pushed as far as they could go, they still never made the vertical - so I physically couldn't turn them out myself, even with supports in shoes.

tissy Tue 09-Sep-08 21:51:22

milliways, you must have been the 1:1000! Surgery at 7 is vvvv rare!

tissy Tue 09-Sep-08 21:54:23

intoeing can be caused at 1 or more of 3 levels:

curved feet (used to be treated with shoes on the wrong feet)

in-turned tibia

femoral anteversion

most get better without any interference by doctors. Get an opinion, by all means, but don't expect any treatment just yet smile

Milliways Tue 09-Sep-08 22:01:51

Fame! It was severe though - not just pigeon toes, total turned feet. I had to travel to the Nuffield Orthopaedic centre for treatment and my Mum could only visit every other day (couldn't afford petrol) and Dad every Saturday!!

How time's have changed. They would stay with you now.

Spidermama Wed 10-Sep-08 22:05:51

I'll try putting his shoes on the wrong feet. He always seems to manage this strategy himself. I also know where I can get the Geox shoes though I'm aware they're not cheap.

Thanks for your help here. He's just grown out of a really crap pair of cheap shoes which may not have helped.

barking Thu 11-Sep-08 21:10:34

Forgot to say the Geox are super light compared to all the others we've had in the past. I haven't noticed ds2 fall over since new ones.

Designers make boys boots like boys bikes - far too heavy and clumpy!

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