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General health

Soya formula warning

46 replies

suedonim · 08/02/2003 14:59

Someone sent me this interesting report about \linkwww.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,891456,00.html\soya formula milk{}. It may become prescription-only.

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suedonim · 08/02/2003 15:05

Hmm, it won't go 'live, dunno why. Here's the URL. www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,891456,00.html

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PamT · 08/02/2003 16:22

I also read elsewhere this week that the heat treatment that soy undergoes causes the production of cancer causing lysinealine.

Cut and pasted as follows-

Soy milk for children

Soy milk is a major concern in infants. In its production, in order to remove as much of the trypsin inhibitor as possible, the beans are soaked in an alkaline solution and heated to 115ºC (239ºF) in a pressure cooker. While this does destroy most of the anti-nutrients, it also denatures the proteins, making the milk very difficult to digest. But there is worse to come: the alkaline processing produces lysinealine , which causes cancer. It also reduces the amount of an amino acid, cystine , without which the protein complex is worthless unless the diet is fortified with meat, eggs or dairy produce ? which is not likely in a vegetarian.

The use of soy-based infant formulas has caused zinc deficiency in infants leading to brain damage. The lack of cholesterol in soy-based formulas also has adverse effects on infants' brains, as cholesterol is essential for proper development of the brain and nervous system. Then the aluminium content of soy milk is ten times higher than is found in milk-based formula and one hundred times as high as in breast milk. Apart from vegetarians, infants are sometimes prescribed soy formula in cases of cow's-milk allergy, yet allergies to soy products are as common

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DD was first prescribed Wysoy in August 1999 and unfortunately I can't turn the clock back, but what else does a milk intolerant baby drink if not breastfed? Surely breastfeeding would also involve the mother drinking soya milk which would be equally affected. Are the hypo-allergenic milks any safer?

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lou33 · 08/02/2003 18:05

Two of mine were prescibed wysoy too, in 1992 and 1998 But when it came to prescribing for my youngest in 2001, I was told wysoy was not prescribed as the norm , and they prescribe a non dairy/non soya formula instead, so dd2 is on something called neocate advance. There are other brands though, including nutramigen, but ds reacted to that as well.

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suedonim · 09/02/2003 06:05

PamT, the article says there are other things that can be prescribed for milk-intolerant babies, although it doesn't say what they are.

There has been some concern about so-called hypoallergenic milks, after a number of babies in the US developed anaphylactic shock after taking it. Here's a bit about hypoallergenic milk claims.

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robinw · 09/02/2003 07:03

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robinw · 09/02/2003 09:23

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suedonim · 09/02/2003 13:51

I'd thank you not to lecture me, Robinw, in that unpleasant school-marmish tone. If you look again you'll see I specifically said 'so-called hypoallergenic'.

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robinw · 09/02/2003 15:32

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suedonim · 09/02/2003 16:22

You're reading things into my post that aren't there, Robinw, just as you say I did. I did not imply all hypo-allergenic milks were a problem, just so-called hypoallergic ones, which surely would be the ones that anyone allergic to milk would want to avoid. Also, the BMA site specifically says "Milks with HA or Hypoallergenic claims are still used in many countries, including Europe." which sounds like more than one milk. I have no problem with the other side of the story (although I note in your URL the author says 'Soy formulas as a sole food for infants should be given more detailed analysis and scientific study.' which seems to be leaving room for doubt.

However, I've no wish to risk being subject to your unpleasant attitude any longer so I'll just say "You are right, I am wrong" and bow out now.

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robinw · 09/02/2003 17:03

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pupuce · 09/02/2003 21:59

Goodie... a fight....
Can I just say one thing... and I'll get Robin's wrath maybe???

Robin you posetd :
"...couldn't get a straight answer from my gp on whether that was safe. " and right after that you say

"Please be wary of what you read on the internet and check out any claims for yourself or with your doctor. "

Obviously doctors don't always know (as you seem to have personnally experienced) and they are also not always right... and neither is science!

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sml2 · 10/02/2003 13:50

I've always mistrusted soy as a sole food for infants, because my bro suffers from a reaction to all soya, which is apparently not that rare, and any tendency to it would obviously be exaggerated if a baby was fed on a soya formula. Thank you for starting this interesting thread, suedonim!

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PamT · 10/02/2003 16:06

Medical advice on milk intolerance is very hard to find. GP's know very little about it, HV's not much more and dieticians often don't go any further than counting nutrients. My main source of information was vegan friends and a lot of internet surfing. There also seems to be confusion about lactose intolerance against a more general milk intolerance and it is usually down to parents to diagnose the problem and then we have to fight hard to get recognition by the medical profession.

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CER · 10/02/2003 16:10

Since my ds is on a hypoallergenic formula I really appreciate all your postings suedonim and robinw. The more you can read about anything the better in my opinion.

Think that there are enough Gina F threads for all fights to be contained within that forum!!

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sb34 · 10/02/2003 22:58

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JJ · 11/02/2003 15:31

My paed and I talked about the difference between Neocate and Nutramigen when my younger son was having problems with milk. (My elder son is allergic to milk -- he's had about 4 or 5 anaphylactic reactions to it.) Here's what he told me: Neocate is built up from amino acids, there's no milk protein in it. Nutramigen is made from hydrolysed milk protein.

Here's a blurb from the Neocate website: www.shsweb.co.uk/neocate/pat/about.htm

Breast milk is the ideal substitute for cow milk in the majority of cases although this may not always be practical. Generally in the past a soy based milk or an extensively hydrolysed protein formula was recommended. A hydrolysed formula contains protein particles small enough to be tolerated by most children. But increasingly, it is recognised that the symptoms of some severely allergic children do not fully resolve on these formulaeresulting in poor growth.
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When they say "breast milk" they mean breast milk from a mother who is not eating any dairy. Milk protein goes into a mother's milk, so the mother cannot eat it if her child is allergic. A milk allergy is a reaction to the milk protein. It is very different than lactose intolerance, which is an inability to digest lactose, a sugar present in all animals (including humans) milk. Nutramigen is a hydrolysed formula, made by chopping up the milk protein into little pieces most (and that's the key, I think) children can handle, ie, the protein bits are small enough to sneak by the out of control immune system. And Neocate doesn't really contain protein -- but it does contain the amino acids with which the proteins are made.

Dunno if that helps. We used Neocate a couple of times, but I gave up milk protein in my diet because I was breastfeeding. He said that it was fine to try either (Nutramigen or Neocate) and simply watch and see if he reacted to Nutramigen. I opted for Neocate, simply because I didn't want to worry about it. If I had continued using formula, I would have probably tried both. Most likely Nutramigen would have been fine. Neocate tastes disgusting, by the way. My elder son used to be allergic to soya, so I didn't try that with the younger (just your average, run of the mill allergy -- hives and swelling). Plus I've got this vague "soya formula is bad" idea. Not prepared to defend that, though.

Anyway, there ya' go. Hope that helps someone.

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sb34 · 11/02/2003 16:06

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lou33 · 11/02/2003 16:37

Sb34 ds2 was prescribed nutramigen over wysoy by the hospital, they said they avoid using soya formula as many children are also allergic to soya, and nutramigen, neocate and others like it are a more elemental broken down formula. Because it is in effect already like digested milk, the body is less likely to react to it. Ds was ok on nutramigen until he picked up a bug, then he couldn't tolerate that anymore and was put onto neocate, which is a more broken down type. They all smell and taste disgusting btw!

My oldest and my 3rd all had wysoy though, so it must only be in the last few years this practice has been in use.

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aloha · 11/02/2003 19:07

That's what Posh Spice gave Brooklyn, according to her autobiography.

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lou33 · 11/02/2003 19:46

Wysoy, neocate or nutramigen Aloha?

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aloha · 11/02/2003 19:59

Neocate, I think. It was formula for babies who are allergic to everything.

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lou33 · 11/02/2003 21:34

Thats what ds is on, although he is on neocate advance now as it has more calories for his age, and is more filling.

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JJ · 11/02/2003 21:42

I know you didn't mean it that way, but Neocate is the formula for kids who are really allergic to something. It's not some bourgeois formula for overly paranoid parents. Must repeat that I know you didn't mean it that way.


My husband just laughed because I deleted the whole "just you watch your child die" bit I had written. But trust me, it's not fun and Neocate is appropriate in its time and place. And I thought I could find the whole "soya = bad" thread, but I can't. There was someone very reliable posting, though... (yeah, yeah, not me.)

Maybe I'll go to the drinking thread? We're making jokes about our trips to the emergency room now. (Um, for my son with the allergies. Luckily haven't had any others.... yet.)

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lou33 · 11/02/2003 22:21

Neocate and Nutramigen are only available on prescription so there has to be a medical reason to give it.

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robinw · 14/02/2003 06:41

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