To MMR or not to MMR

[Soooootired]

I realise this is sensitive topic but it is coming up to my sons time to have his jabs and I'm terrified. I have read many conflicting reports and worry about doctors being given cash incentives to promote the vaccinations.

I would just like as many opinions as possible and find out if there are alternative vaccinations not linked to autism?

[wearymum200]

Here's a couple of links. Lots of info on the NHS website.
The "cash incentive" for GPs is the same as for all the other things they do, like preventing heart attacks and strokes and providing contraception, smear tests. The NHS pays them to do them, that's how the NHS system works. (I am not a gp, btw
www.immunisation.nhs.uk/Vaccines/MMR/Resources
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/725933 8.stm

[aliasdictus]

I am intigued as to what is going to make up your mind, is the huge body of solid evidence on the side of vaccination, the combined advice of all the medical professionals or is it the opinion of a few mates on the internet? There are not conflicting reports as you say, there are conflicting opinions promulgated by the media and irresponsible journalists who have no scientific training whatsoever. It all started by some distinctly dodgy research by someone who actually had a financial interest in it all, all his evidence has been refuted by properly designed trials and by almost every health organisation and professional in the world.

Millions and millions of doses have been given to children and all the evidence is on the side of vaccination and yet people still wind each other up with blatent scaremongering. If you decide against vaccination then your child will be at risk of measles, one of the nastiest diseases a child can get. Make no mistake, it is not just feeling a bit under the weather like a cold, it is really really nasty with the added 'bonus' of not knowing how damaged your child may be if they survive. If you decide against it then it lowers the 'herd immunity' of your local population meaning the risk of catching it goes up for everyone else, indeed other countries cannot believe how we do not insist on it as a prerequisite before nursery and schools admission.

I realise that you probably don't want to hear this and no doubt hordes of 'doubters' will post anecdotal evidence here about how 'little Jimmy caught Autism' with messages of support against the duplicitous medical profession. But they are totally WRONG, sorry!

[tab1]

dd had her first dose yesterday and seems very tired but otherwise fine, better safe than sorry.

[LongLiveCuckoo]

The above poster is right, but ONLY up to a point.

Yes, give your child the MMR, but only providing there is no family history of crohns, IBS, allergy to egg or autism.

IF there is family history of above, I'd go for single vaccinations. Even though, some of those carry increased risks of certain strains of Menningitis. So they're not a perfect solution either.

Governments in general (UK, Irish I am mainly refering to though) obviously, and with good reason put 'the greater good' above the wellbeing of any individuals at risk. They will obviously never admit that there is an increased risk for certain groups, but I am utterly convinced of it.

I looked into all of this extensively 6 yrs ago. I did in the end give my two children the MMR, and NOT single vaccinations. But I wouldn't mock or undermine any parent whose child had say, an egg allergy, who decided against it.

[LackaDAISYcal]

I don't know if there is an issue with the triple jab, but I do think that some children will react badly to it; just as some children will react to other, less controversial jabs. The main issue is that no-one knows which child will have a reaction. Saying that, the risk of the child having any sort of reaction is far greater than the risk of serious complications if they catch any of the diseases that it is vaccinating them against.

that was a no-brainer for me so I've had both of mine done and will do DC3 when his turn comes.

and, as far as I am aware there is no actual, confirmed and fully researched link between the MMR and autism.

[LongLiveCuckoo]

When I said pp, I meant aliasdictus.

[TheBlonde]

jabs has some info on vaccine damage

the alternatives in the UK are single vaccines which you can pay for privately or opting not to vaccinate

[puffylovett]

Hi
I am not anti vaccination.
However, I am anti umpteen vaccinations in one hit on a developing immune system.

If we decide to vaccinate for measles etc, then I will do it individually when DS is a little older and his allergies are under better control.

aliasdictus, I've done loads and loads of reading ref vaccinations in general and what I struggle to get my head around is how herd immunity reduces with non vaccination and the chances of everyone catching measles increases. Surely it only increases for those who are unvaccinated ? surely the vaccinated will be immune ? if you're able to explain in more detail I would really appreciate

Soootired, one of the items I cam across when researching this was a TV interview with the Director of the CDC talking about how there isn't a link with autism and MMR. There is apparently, however, a link between autism-like symptoms and those who carry the particular gene for autism, and MMR.
I thought that was quite interesting.

[LackaDAISYcal]

oops that should have been the other way round, viz:

the risk of serious complications from the individual diseases is greater than the risk of complications from the vaccine!

[forevercleaning]

1st dc had both jabs - no prob
2nd dc had first one only - no booster
3rd dc none

[Rhian82]

I can only agree with what's been said above. There is NO confusion or debate within the medical community. The MMR is safe.

There has only ever been one piece of research which came out against the MMR. That was deeply flawed, both in the basic science, and the fact that the doctor involved was receiving funding from people looking to sue the NHS over an alleged link - there's the financial incentive, not on the side of promoting MMR. There have been many studies that show MMR is completely safe. On the other hand, since these scare stories have been around, children have died of measles. It's actually something that makes me really angry as I feel the tabloids that promote these scare stories, with no knowledge of science and nothing but a view to sales, are directly responsible for those deaths, and for the suffering of every child who needlessly catches one of the diseases.

[HappypillsGalore]

we agonised over this.
and dp was against it.
till he decided to do some internet searching and find out if the controversy was an issue in other countries who use mmr.
he found that it wasnt.
and concluded that the if there were genuinely something to be worried about, that this massive debate would be going on elsewhere too.
and it doesnt appear to be.
and so we got the mmr.

[crokky]

I got my DS single jabs and will get the same for my DD when she's old enough.

I got them done here

www.breakspearmedical.co.uk/

(Go to products and services, then individual MMR).

I have autism in the family so would not risk MMR for my kids.

[wasabipeanut]

I've thought about this one long and hard and will be going ahead with my ds - now 11mo.

I accept that there are some "markers" that may indicate that a child is likely to react badly but there is no history of that in either my or dh's family.

Aliasdictus put the pov fairly strongly but I agree with the basis of that argument.

[ApuskiDusky]

I'm approaching this soon as well - LongLive Cuckoo, your post was v helpful in summarising much of the drawn-out threads I've seen in the past, many thanks!

[catweazle]

There have been a huge number of threads on this issue (and they usually end up in a slanging match ) Try searching the site under jimjams and you can read the anti-vax/ single vax argument. There will be enough people like the earlier posters to tell you that you are being stupid to even have doubts.

We took DD2 to Dr Halvorsen on Monday and she had the single measles jab. I have IBS and my DS2 who had the MMR has IBS and ADHD and dyspraxia. The link may not be proved but I wasn't chancing it with this one.

[LongLiveCuckoo]

There have been no isolated studies done for children with IBS/egg allergy, digestion problems.

It is not correct to say that it is 100% safe for this category. This is not known.

It is vital for the medical communities that all studies continue to 'prove' that MMR is safe. Who funds these studies? People who benefit from the 'fact' that MMR is proved safe! So it is unfair to disregard Dr Andrew Wakefield's study entirely as his study was probably no more or less biased than any of the other studies which have to find that it is safe. NO other conclusion acceptable.

I'm not looking for things to worry about. I gave my children the MMR, because they weren't in any of the groups I mentioned above. There are thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of testomonies from parents who know their child and know that they convulsed within hours of receiving the MMR, and never fully recovered. If people choose to ignore all of these thousands of testimonies because the governments manipulate studies which 'prove' that the mmr is 100% safe then they are being naive.

The government are never going to allow a situation where parents take it upon themselves to decide whether or not their child should have the vaccination.

[fifflegumps]

When I made up my mind to have both boys vaccinated - all I saw was the signs in the doctors surgery which are telling us about our health. The doctors and nurses are there to save lives not the opposite. The papers are usually out to make a story and there is a great cash incentive always behind that! Please listen to the experts and have the vaccination done.

[emma1977]

GPs do not receive 'cash incentives to promote vaccinations'. It is considered to be core service provision, and they are paid for it accordingly (just as they do for smears, chronic disease checks, etc).

GPs offering single vaccines privately have a fairly big cash incentive to push them, as they can pretty much charge whatever they like and keep the profits.

[soooootired]

Thank you for all your posts! I did not want to start another debate but I'm rubbish at searching for threads on mumsnet otherwise I would have just read other ones. Aliasdictus you put a good point across but perhaps a bit strong as like all mothers (and DS is my first) I am nervous and only concerned for the welfare of my child and trying to do right by him.

LongLiveCuckoo interesting about the family history, I need to look into that. HappypillsGalore there is sense in what your DH says!